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Post by joewiggs on Apr 18, 2010 18:08:01 GMT -5
Most of the encounters with hostiles came in the form of hit-and-run brushes and skirmishes. Casualties were usually light and short range fire was limited. Indian warriors were esentially raiders who often sparred with the "whites" rather than deploying a toe-to-toe assault. I need not recite the exceptions to this, there are several. At the Big Horn, the soldiers did not think Custer was too passive to achieve the mission, just the opposite I would venture. However, there were occasions when the soldiers thought their commanders were somewhat passive. A detachment of the First Calvary, searching for the Apache Kid in 1892, followed what they were sure was a "hot" trail into a canyon just at dark. A cavalryman, Clarence Gould stated that the officer in charge,"posted a sentry at each end of his tent." No effort, by the commander, was issued to investigate the dark canyon, After a night of trepidation, the troopers pulled out in the morning and returned to their post. The official report stated that no sign of the kid was found. Personally, I think the commander was an astute judge of character and realized that discretion is the better part of valor.
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Post by tbw on Apr 18, 2010 19:13:39 GMT -5
A very astute observation. One does wonder whether Custer expected one "Big Village" or many smaller villages along the LBH as what he encountered at the Washita. It certainly would or should affect the way one would plan to attack it. Attacking smaller villages a mile or more apart for a whole regiment would be a whole lot easier and more successful than trying to attack one huge one.
The Indians as you observed may have been more encouraged to fight with the numbers they had. They certainly would not have done so in smaller strung out villages. Of course the message to Benteen now becomes ever more so clear, doesn't it? "Benteen, come on, BIG VILLAGE... telegraphed one heck of a lot more to Benteen than he ever admitted, and took that treasured thought to his grave.
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 23, 2010 21:20:35 GMT -5
Absolutely! By relaying to Benteen that the village was "Big", Custer was not alarmed and pleading for assistance to prevent his demise and the demise of his troops. What he was relaying to Benteen that "big Village" meant that his fear of numerous villages strung out like the Washita was groundless. Rather, as he had hoped, the villages were together and ready to be plucked!
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Post by whitebull on Oct 2, 2010 19:15:07 GMT -5
Right, "Big Village" did not mean let's get the hell out of here before we get whipped, it meant we ain't gotta worry about a strung out village like the Washita!
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Post by crazycanuck on Nov 20, 2010 9:34:51 GMT -5
He should of been thinking let's get back to Reno and hurry Benteen up and get the hell out of here because I'd rather be a live deer than a dead lion today.Custers problem was that he couldn't see the forest through the trees because he was blinded by the evervescent light that radiated off of his brillance. And you guys thought the sun was bright that day.
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Post by whitebull on Nov 20, 2010 17:41:54 GMT -5
Brother, you are more than welcome to you opinions. It would be fine it opinions were based on some kind of facts. I don't see many facts with your points of view. What I do see is that you must believe that Custer fought the battle by his self. Seeing how he was the only soldier at fault. Dang Buddy!
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Post by crazycanuck on Nov 20, 2010 19:22:56 GMT -5
" Custer fought the battle by his self ". I'm sure HE thought HE could of whipped them himself.
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Post by Cutter on Nov 20, 2010 21:57:36 GMT -5
Well, there comes a time when repeated diatribes become old and of no use to anyone but the writer. Speaking for only myself, this is bordering, nope, this is boorish. I suggest you change the tune, or at least the lyrics, this is becoming predictable and stale.
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Post by joewiggs on Jun 19, 2011 19:18:14 GMT -5
The poor soldier who was forced to confront Warriors was also obligated to face the fierceness of Mother Nature as well. Between the winter weather and the parching heat of summer life was pretty much hellish!.
general Crook's "shelter less" regiment endured "twenty-six days of rain in the course of their fifty two-days of rain in the course of their fifty-two day "starvation march"through Montana and South Dakota in the summer and fall of 1876.
All of this for a measly 13 dollars a month!?
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Post by joewiggs on Nov 26, 2011 19:49:26 GMT -5
Speaking of Commanders, how can we forget the commander of the first Colorado Calvary which attacked the Sand Creek village of Cheyennes and killed more than one hundred men, women and children!
At the approach the great Chief, White Antelope, ran forward and pointed to the United States flag under which the village resided in a legal peace treaty of our government.
As Chivington continued his approach, his men firing away, Chief Antelope realized the futility in resistance and bravely folded his arms, stood tall and was shot down.
Here comes the irony of war. Custer's' command,undoubtedly, was engaged in fighting a great many Cheyenne warriors who remember the slaughter of their women and children, the laughter of the soldiers as they placed bets on "pot" shots at the little boys and girls who ran in circles in a frenzy of fear crying for their parents before finally being slaughtered. Imagine the relatives of these unfortunates as they swarmed up the hill to Custer's last stand and what were in their minds as they crept ever so slowly toward the wounded and not quite dead soldiers.
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Post by whitebull on May 18, 2012 19:21:04 GMT -5
This has nothing top do with a particular army company but maybe all of them?:
"Alcoholism is the almost certain consequence of continued excessive drinking. Many a frontier regular fell victim to liquor addiction. the alcoholic officer or soldier unable to control his intake of liquor was a serious morale and discipline problem. During the decade of the 1880's, a ratio pf forty-one for every thousand men were hospitalized for alcoholics."
Forty one of a thousand don't count those who were not hospitalized. There were some soldiers who were alcoholics but still able to function. I'm not surprised that soldiers may have been drunk at the Big Horn and if they were its no wonder what happened happened.
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Post by joewiggs on May 19, 2012 15:49:01 GMT -5
I have read that for the most part, frontier duty was so horrendously boring, day after day, month after moth then suddenly and without warning men drown in flash floods, rabid wolves come into camp finding victims, and the companionship that men need to fulfill then was often missing. I don't know for sure but, there probably were no public libraries either! Is it any wonder?
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Post by strange on May 19, 2012 20:43:49 GMT -5
Speaking of Commanders, how can we forget the commander of the first Colorado Calvary which attacked the Sand Creek village of Cheyennes and killed more than one hundred men, women and children! At the approach the great Chief, White Antelope, ran forward and pointed to the United States flag under which the village resided in a legal peace treaty of our government. As Chivington continued his approach, his men firing away, Chief Antelope realized the futility in resistance and bravely folded his arms, stood tall and was shot down. Here comes the irony of war. Custer's' command,undoubtedly, was engaged in fighting a great many Cheyenne warriors who remember the slaughter of their women and children, the laughter of the soldiers as they placed bets on "pot" shots at the little boys and girls who ran in circles in a frenzy of fear crying for their parents before finally being slaughtered. Imagine the relatives of these unfortunates as they swarmed up the hill to Custer's last stand and what were in their minds as they crept ever so slowly toward the wounded and not quite dead soldiers. Were any of those indians actually fighting Custer at Little Bighorn?
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Post by tbw on May 20, 2012 6:00:19 GMT -5
Speaking of Commanders, how can we forget the commander of the first Colorado Calvary which attacked the Sand Creek village of Cheyennes and killed more than one hundred men, women and children! At the approach the great Chief, White Antelope, ran forward and pointed to the United States flag under which the village resided in a legal peace treaty of our government. As Chivington continued his approach, his men firing away, Chief Antelope realized the futility in resistance and bravely folded his arms, stood tall and was shot down. Here comes the irony of war. Custer's' command,undoubtedly, was engaged in fighting a great many Cheyenne warriors who remember the slaughter of their women and children, the laughter of the soldiers as they placed bets on "pot" shots at the little boys and girls who ran in circles in a frenzy of fear crying for their parents before finally being slaughtered. Imagine the relatives of these unfortunates as they swarmed up the hill to Custer's last stand and what were in their minds as they crept ever so slowly toward the wounded and not quite dead soldiers. Were any of those indians actually fighting Custer at Little Bighorn? Good question Sir Strange. It might have been possible that some might have been there, who knows? Most of Chief Black Kettle's little band was wiped out at the Washita in 1868. But, did any of those survive during the battle only to join other bands of Southern Cheyenne and later participate at the LBH. I think certainly age wouldn't have been a factor in this because Sand Creek occurred in 1864, only 12 years before the LBH, so if say a young buck or more had ran away from that scene of carnage to live and fight another day, it might have been possible. And most Indians were pretty savvy when it came to knowing when the odds were either in their favor or not. Also Consider Chief Black Kettles age as well when he was killed. He was born ca. 1803 - 1813.
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Post by strange on May 20, 2012 8:10:00 GMT -5
Were any of those indians actually fighting Custer at Little Bighorn? Good question Sir Strange. It might have been possible that some might have been there, who knows? Most of Chief Black Kettle's little band was wiped out at the Washita in 1868. But, did any of those survive during the battle only to join other bands of Southern Cheyenne and later participate at the LBH. I think certainly age wouldn't have been a factor in this because Sand Creek occurred in 1864, only 12 years before the LBH, so if say a young buck or more had ran away from that scene of carnage to live and fight another day, it might have been possible. And most Indians were pretty savvy when it came to knowing when the odds were either in their favor or not. Also Consider Chief Black Kettles age as well when he was killed. He was born ca. 1803 - 1813. My thoughts were basically that whoever was not killed or captured would have mostly surrendered soon after. Custer wrapped up that conflict in a very substantial way. I do hear that Indians like Gall kinda had their own places just a short distance away from Black Kettle's, but I'm really curious about whether anyone directly from Kettle's village would have gotten back to warring.
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