Benteen: Saint or Sinner

[joewiggs]

The following is an excerpt from a letter written by Gen. Terry dated July 2, 1876, the confidential one to be received by Gen. Sheridan:

"The Indians had evidently nerved themselves for a stand, but as I learn from Capt. Benteen, on the twenty-second the cavalry marched twelve miles;on the twenty-third, thirty-five miles.;from five A.M. till eight P.M. on the twenty fourth, forty-five miles and then after night ten miles further; then after resting but without unsaddling, twenty-three miles to the battlefield."The sum total of Benteen figures comes to a total of 135 miles.

The actual distance traveled, as most students are aware, was about 108 miles. Benteen reported to his superior that Custer traveled 27 miles further than he actually did! Why did he do so? we can never know for sure but i will speculate!

The extra mileage helps to confirm the false perspective that tired men and horses were driven on a force march by a glory hungry commander.

Terry himself freely admits that Benteen supplied this information to him. Information that was no better than a vicious lie from a despicable individual who would go to any length to destroy the credibility of George Custer. How low can some people go.

I eagerly await responses that may, perhaps, explain the situation differently or in a softer light?

[whitebull]

I really believe that Benteen was a top notch jerk! Reading the "Custer Myth" I was amazed how he ranked on everyone on Reno Hill except himself.

He said that Moylan cried like a "urchin", that Gibbon "showed the "white feather" and a whole lot of degrading things about Reno too.

What really shocked me is that the condensed version of the Reno inquiry (Graham) list 16 witnesses who testified about whether they heard shooting coming from the area where Custer was at. !3 of them heard firing, 3 of them did not. Guess who didn't!

[joewiggs]

I have finally come to a conclusion that I really believe to be true. Benteen's vindictiveness was so acute that it made him, sadly, somewhat of a monster;a sinner!

Even Custer's death could not alter his stringent hatred for the man. To hate any human to such a degree without just cause is to be absent of spirituality;or so I believe!

[stumblingbear]

It just makes my head spin when I read (and I have lately) of Benteen's doings I must admit that it is shocking at the least!

[joewiggs]

Our modern day FBI rendered an investigation, regarding the petition by the enlisted men of the 7th cavalry requesting that the vacancies of rank that occurred after the battle be refilled by the survivors of the battle. This petition was signed by 236 of the cavalry survivors of the Little Big Horn battle, approximately 80 percent of the survivors.

The FBI determined that at least seventy-six of the signatures were "probably forgeries." Masny of the signature may were reportedly, signed by one man, 1st. Sgt. Joseph McCurry of Company "H", which was commanded by Capt. Benteen.

[whitebull]

I guess it was just a "coincidenty" that the trail just happen to lead to Benteen. I'm sure that the old Sarge, McCurry didn't come up with this idea on his own. If names on a petition to the government are forged to fool the public and the military, then its safe to say that anything is possible!

[stumblingbear]

Here's something of real interest that I just discovered in "The Little Big Horn (Official Communication,etc.) by Overfield ll, P.37

"The movements proposed by Genl. Gibbon's column were carried out to the letter and had the attack been deferred until it was up I cannot doubt that we should have been successful. The Indians had evidently nerved themselves for a stand but as I learned from Capt. Benteen, on the twenty-second, the cavalry marched twelve miles;on the twenty-third, thirty-five miles;from five A.M. till eight P.M. on the twenty-fourth,forty-five miles and then after night ten miles further; then after resting but without unsaddling,twenty-three miles to the battlefield."

Telegram, Confidential to Gen. Sheridan

Benteen tells Terry that the men marched 125 miles to get to the battle when they marched only 72 or 74 miles. This wrong information makes Custer look like a slave driver with his men being the slaves. Benteen has to know that he is giving false information to his commander. this certainly makes him a candidate for a "Sinner."

[whitebull]

No offense but, that don't make sense. Why would Benteen lie to Terry and why didn't Terry check the distance to make sure that Benteen was right before reporting to his boss?

[joewiggs]

Feb 24, 2013 10:46:25 GMT -5 stumblingbear said:

Here's something of real interest that I just discovered in "The Little Big Horn (Official Communication,etc.) by Overfield ll, P.37

"The movements proposed by Genl. Gibbon's column were carried out to the letter and had the attack been deferred until it was up I cannot doubt that we should have been successful. The Indians had evidently nerved themselves for a stand but as I learned from Capt. Benteen, on the twenty-second, the cavalry marched twelve miles;on the twenty-third, thirty-five miles;from five A.M. till eight P.M. on the twenty-fourth,forty-five miles and then after night ten miles further; then after resting but without unsaddling,twenty-three miles to the battlefield."

Telegram, Confidential to Gen. Sheridan

Benteen tells Terry that the men marched 125 miles to get to the battle when they marched only 72 or 74 miles. This wrong information makes Custer look like a slave driver with his men being the slaves. Benteen has to know that he is giving false information to his commander. this certainly makes him a candidate for a "Sinner."

The route from Custer's base Camp (June 21) at the Yellowstone and Rosebud to Busby stop was 72 miles. from that point to the battlefield,I believe, was twenty miles or so. The total was far short of a march of 125 miles as proposed by Benteen.

WB, Benteen's desire was to convince his commander that except for Custer's foolhardy rush, the mission would have reaped success. Terry, reeling from the failure and smarting from the vicious sting of responsibility for the failure was willing to be persuaded by Benteen. Lt. Wallace was the itinerant for the command and Terry could have easily checked with him had he so desired.

As I have preached over and over again, we can not judge people of that era as we would by our present day standards.

In Custer's era, to have been defeated by "savages" was impossible for that ethnocentric society to accept unless somebody (white) screwed up.

[whitebull]

I still just don't get it. I'm not trying to egg you on, believe me. I understand that Benteen could have wanted to be free of any kind of blame but I can't understand why nobody spoke up and said something like, "'Hey buddy, check with someone else for the record why don't ya!"

That way the truth wills out. there were a whole lot of survivors who could have straighten out the record one way or the other. Are you saying that everybody involved in the battle was dishonest! Just saying!

[joewiggs]

WB, it is difficult to understand and digest all the nuances of this battle as there are many however, the truth is that the entire battle was shabbily planned yet, approved by the military hierarchy in command.

The subsequent failure reflected poorly upon these men who were unwilling to publicly share their involvement in what was actually a fiasco.

The village occupied territory little known to the military and to suppose that one unit of fleet cavalry supported by a slow walking unit of men afoot in an area unknown to all involved parties was difficult at best and foolish at its worse.

Combine this critical factor with an equally important truth;the surviving officers were embarrassed by their less than gallant participation and wished the event to be forgotten as well as did the hierarchy.

Reno was a total embarrassment to all parties. All knew that he fumbled the ball on the one yard line in a miserable,besotting, and fainthearted way.

The solution to a real dilemma? Let Reno sprout his his innocence, keep your mouth shut, and let the truth die with the dead;case closed.

[stumblingbear]

I have always wondered why only Benteen and Reno insisted that they never received orders of any kind from Custer and that they had no idea what Custer wanted from them. Benteen in a letter to his a little after the battle referred to "the valley" he was to go to. What valley would that have been if not the big Horn?

Both men make statements they heard no sounds of battle coming from Custer's field when many others did.

Custer's life and the life of his command depended on support from the rest of the outfit, wouldn't he have to be crazy not to explain what support he needed to his top commanders?

[whitebull]

Feb 27, 2013 16:27:32 GMT -5 joewiggs said:

WB, it is difficult to understand and digest all the nuances of this battle as there are many however, the truth is that the entire battle was shabbily planned yet, approved by the military hierarchy in command.

The subsequent failure reflected poorly upon these men who were unwilling to publicly share their involvement in what was actually a fiasco.

The village occupied territory little known to the military and to suppose that one unit of fleet cavalry supported by a slow walking unit of men afoot in an area unknown to all involved parties was difficult at best and foolish at its worse.

Combine this critical factor with an equally important truth;the surviving officers were embarrassed by their less than gallant participation and wished the event to be forgotten as well as did the hierarchy.

Reno was a total embarrassment to all parties. All knew that he fumbled the ball on the one yard line in a miserable,besotting, and fainthearted way.

The solution to a real dilemma? Let Reno sprout his his innocence, keep your mouth shut, and let the truth die with the dead;case closed.

There is no way so much could have been covered up by so few! In real life, something always leaks out when a cover up is tried. Probably some of the things you write may be true but that doesn't mean the same measure holds for everything. Reno had a good civil war record and nothing was ever said about his being a coward. Why would he just come unglued in one battle when he did well in so many others. There may not have been 9000 Indians in the battle but there were enough to get the job done.

Reno sent Weir to find Custer as soon as the packs got there because there just was no way they could know exactly where was at. Weir was a good friend of Custer but even he ran when he realized how many Indians were waiting for him.

[stumblingbear]

I have never found any record that even hinted about the relationship between Benteen and his son until I began reading "Touched by Fire" by Louise Barnett. (page 161)


"It seems likely that Benteen, who had a well-developed sense of his own abilities, was jealous of Custer-----the West Point graduate, the younger and better-rewarded man.

These are understanable motives, but they hardly seem enough to explain Benteen's dogged hatred. E. A. brininstool, a Custerphobe,wrote to Custer biographer Frederick Van de Water that Benteen's son Freddy had close off discussion by claiming to have no idea why the two men were enimies. Brininstool noted that the younger Benteen did not like to talk about his father and ignored inquires: 'I sent him a batch of letters written by this human skunt W.J. Ghent of Washington , in which he brands the the old man as a liar and drunkard, and yet that damnable son refuses to take any action or even to get mad over such defamation of character.

Perhaps Freddy, the only survivor of five children, had found his father difficult to live with, too, or perhaps he was merely immune to the virus of conjecture over the Last Stand that others found so infectious.

What ever the cause, Freddy's silence resonates against a letter his father wrote to the Army and Navy Journel seven months after the Little Big Horn disaster. he was commenting on on frederick Whittaker's public accusation that he had failed to go to Custer's aid, as ordered:

'I have one child-----a ten-year old boy; if he learns from his father's daily life, what his character is, as he must, will it make much difference to him in after years, in stumbling across Whittaker's book to see his father quoted as having neglected the first duty of a soldier? Benteen's question was meant to be rethorical, but perhaps Freddy's later failure to defend his father indicates that the true answer was "yes."


I was stunned by this passage. Young Benteen chose to stay quiet when Brininstool the Custerphobe wanted negative information about Custer. Makes you wonder "why" doesn't it.

[tbw]

Jul 6, 2013 20:52:38 GMT -5 stumblingbear said:

I have never found any record that even hinted about the relationship between Benteen and his son until I began reading "Touched by Fire" by Louise Barnett. (page 161)


"It seems likely that Benteen, who had a well-developed sense of his own abilities, was jealous of Custer-----the West Point graduate, the younger and better-rewarded man.

These are understanable motives, but they hardly seem enough to explain Benteen's dogged hatred. E. A. brininstool, a Custerphobe,wrote to Custer biographer Frederick Van de Water that Benteen's son Freddy had close off discussion by claiming to have no idea why the two men were enimies. Brininstool noted that the younger Benteen did not like to talk about his father and ignored inquires: 'I sent him a batch of letters written by this human skunt W.J. Ghent of Washington , in which he brands the the old man as a liar and drunkard, and yet that damnable son refuses to take any action or even to get mad over such defamation of character.

Perhaps Freddy, the only survivor of five children, had found his father difficult to live with, too, or perhaps he was merely immune to the virus of conjecture over the Last Stand that others found so infectious.

What ever the cause, Freddy's silence resonates against a letter his father wrote to the Army and Navy Journel seven months after the Little Big Horn disaster. he was commenting on on frederick Whittaker's public accusation that he had failed to go to Custer's aid, as ordered:

'I have one child-----a ten-year old boy; if he learns from his father's daily life, what his character is, as he must, will it make much difference to him in after years, in stumbling across Whittaker's book to see his father quoted as having neglected the first duty of a soldier? Benteen's question was meant to be rethorical, but perhaps Freddy's later failure to defend his father indicates that the true answer was "yes."


I was stunned by this passage. Young Benteen chose to stay quiet when Brininstool the Custerphobe wanted negative information about Custer. Makes you wonder "why" doesn't it.

I'm not going to say what you wrote wasn't true, it very well might have been just as you've noted. Also true however is the reluctance of some veterans not to speak of their war time experiences to their family and friends. My father was that way, he just didn't want to talk about what he did. And quite a lot of that had to do with killing that became up close and personal. And I now realize that he figured all I needed to know was that he walked away from it, whatever that was. Because to relate it would bring back memories he had buried and never wanted to think about again.

I would have loved to have known of those wartime experiences he had that weren't battle/killing related, and I told him so. He still would not tell very much at all, I supposed, still don't know, but I supposed that in some way all those events were connected to a past he just wanted to forget.

I think from reading your post that Benteen might have been that way. He didn't want his family and friends to know these things. What didn't make sense with my father, was when he got around other veterans and they talked, and when they did, and we would observe him from afar, letting him do his thing, he was in a state of pleasant memories with his army buddies and clearly and thoroughly enjoying it. But, when we, as in family, approached them, they'd all clam up or seem to be talking about something unrelated to their war time experiences. And I'm sure other families were likewise treated to the, "see, we are talking about other things here. Now move along there's nothing to see or hear." Us children, no matter the age, were kept in the dark about all or most of what he'd experienced, and it had nothing to do with preserving innocence. Hell I was 25 when my father passed and up to time, he fought tooth and nail, clamming up and not to tell me one thing about his war experiences. Was Benteen that way, kind of sounds that way, doesn't it?