Benteen: Saint or Sinner

[joewiggs]

I propose a thread dedicated entirely to the enigma that is more commonly know as Benteen. His orders were the epitome of simplicity yet, he testified to a mysterious inability to comprehend what his commander expected of him. Benteen was an intelligent man, so was Custer. If we are to believe Benteen's testimony then both men were village idiots.

Benteen's order was to go to the bluffs to the left until he reached the valley of the Little Big Horn or ascertained that the village or other impedimenta were not trying to escape south.

Gibson reached the position were he could see that no one was in the upper valley at all. At that point, Benteen was to send a fast courier to Custer and advise him of this critical information and, to return to the main trail as quickly as possible. Benteen failed to do either.
that he understood his orders were self evident in letters he wrote to his wife shortly after the battle.

Now, this leads us to one simple and salient question: why did Benteen lie at the inquiry?

[strange]

Yes he definitely did lie.

Mostly all of them lied about the bulk of what they saw and what they were ordered to do or whether they understood it. Its possible that Benteen may have been awaiting more details but pretty much he dragged is rear for different reasons.

[tbw]

Benteen's mission has been described as everything but what it actually was. It's been described as a "Recon in Force", a "Scout", a "flank guard mission" and nearly every other dumb notion like them that has ever been devised. It was none of them. It's also been described as an "independent action" especially in association with Custer's movements. And it's been thought that he had every credible reason to deviate from the instructions Custer gave him, because that's what he said - Custer said. Hog wash! It wasn't an "independent action" from Custer's movements and it sure as hell wasn't his prerogative to change those orders given directly to him by Custer unless - unless, like Reno he had no other alternative. Benteen didn't see any action until after uniting with Reno, thus he had no good or credible reason to change those orders and return; AND, it was just as he himself said at the COI, he, Frederick Benteen, disobeyed that order (period).

Today, we have the modern marvel mavericks of comic land saying that they "see and do" things to compare it to descriptions of the land over which Benteen and his men rode. First and foremost, they have to know 'exactly' where that was - exactly! And do they? They answer is: They haven't got a clue. Not a one.

What John Gray did is now being looked at in a new way, perhaps even with more favor. And his overall 4 mph speed for Custer's men down Reno Creek from the divide doesn't seem so ridiculous to so many because of those imposing 'drainage defiles'. It's interesting that John Gray picked up on this when he wrote his books and reduced the speed according to what he observed. But, was what he observed, what the terrain was; Custer, Reno and Benteen really had to contend with.

Terrain:

The terrain today is vastly different than it was back in 1876. We don't know about trees and shrub locations or for that matter whether or not there were any, except along the river. Having grown up on the plains, I can tell you that the land where I grew up was once nothing but tall grass in the east and sand hills in the west, and the the first white people who came here called it The Great American Desert. I hardly think that anyone traveling through that country today would or could ever thing that it was once called that.

The 2nd thing that comes to mind is the great buffalo herds that roamed the vast areas of the plains. These great herds tromped down vegetation and made paths and roadways through some of the most impossible of places, most notably was those so called 'drainage defiles' we see today which line the valley floor from the divide to the LBH. They were well worn pathways that existed in Benteen's time. The Buffalo used them and so to did the Indians. What kind of impediments were these 'drainage defiles' back in 1876? NOT MUCH. What takes a horsemen today 10 to 15 minutes to navigate just one, didn't take Benteen and his men but seconds across a much broader and well worn and traveled trail or trails. The truth is it would be much easier to duplicate Benteens mission by just taking the road we see today than it would be to try to navigate where 'no buffalo have roamed' off the beaten path and needlessly slow them down to less than 1 mph in those imposing looking drainage defiles.

What some miss here is the "slow down" for both Custer's and Benteen's men because of those drainage defiles. If they were imposing as they seem today to be, then Custer had more of them to contend with than Benteen did and his rate of speed would have been affected by it just as much, if not more than Benteen and his men. A classic 'we don't know' could prevail here. But its a safe bet that there were Buffalo trails almost anywhere through those defiles, and it wouldn't have been difficult to not to have found one.

Darling's route has forever been imprinted as the ultimate choice for the route Benteen took, because of statements that said that Benteen was to go at a 45 degree angle to the "left". The question still remains; "left" of what? Darling didn't know and made an uneducated guess and we're all still guessing to this day. And they are still getting it wrong, time after time.

Earlier I made mention of what Benteen's mission was not. Was it a "Recon in Force"? If if was, why did Custer send not one messenger, but two, within minutes of each other, just to tell Benteen to "continue"? Was it a "Scout"? If if was, why did Custer send not one messenger, but two, within minutes of each other, just to tell Benteen to "continue"? Was it a "flank guard mission"? If if was, why did Custer send not one messenger, but two, within minutes of each other, just to tell Benteen to "continue"? None of those mission requirements would have needed the adjustments Custer made nor the 'continuance of the same orders'! What if, just what if its what Custer said it was, and "attack mission"? Would those adjustments and the continuance of orders make sense? "Pitch in" means what? Only one thing. And Benteen sure as his horse was stubborn, knew it to.

Most try to bend the curve of speed and time to fit their personal thesis, and in the process many try to warp light as well. Almost any time, place or speed can make it seem right. But the question remains, is it? These are best known as the myth makers that perpetuates the lies.

[davel]

My initial thoughts on Captain Benteen, having finished reading his testimony at the RCOI, is that he did in fact make a "mistake" at the Little Bighorn. Whether he actually disobeyed orders or was just being his "stubborn self" I'm not sure but I think he moved his column at a much slower pace than was expected (by Custer) when he went off to the left. As a result he was late arriving on the field and was unable to support the attack by Reno and/or relieve the pressure on Custer.

I think he realized the full consequences of his actions (or lack of action) once the results of the battle were known and this guided the course of his subsequent discussions and testimony.......he had to cover his butt.

I'm not sure why he "dawdled" in his movement to the left, but my theory is that he didn't think there actually was an Indian village in the Little Bighorn Valley. His testimony claimed it was Custer who didn't believe the village existed, but I think this may be case of him projecting his own thoughts onto someone else.

[tbw]

The term "dawdling" has become popular usage of late, but I think it may have been something entirely different and because of the reasons both you and strange intimate. What doesn't jive and still doesn't was what Benteen thought he was trying to do at the COI. Oh, I know most Benteen supporters would try to defend his actions to their own deaths and with their last dying breaths. And some because of a strange perversion where they think absolution is absolute until proven guilty.

The facts speak for themselves, and not to kindly for the illustrious Captain. Perhaps one of the most damning statements helps to illuminate his aura that day. One must look past what was being said, and think of what you both are saying concerning "dawdling" as Captain Benteen answers this question:

Q. In answer to a question by Maj. Reno as to what were your orders you stated, "valley hunting ad infinitum." Do you mean that was the order or the conclusion of your own mind?

A. That is the way I would like to have it.
That is the way I understood it.

I understood it as rather a senseless order. We were on the main trail of the Indians, there were plenty of them on that trail. We had just passed through immense villages the preceding days and it was scarcely worthwhile hunting up any more, we knew there were eight or ten thousand Indians on the trail we were on.

Q. Do you mean the Indians or the warriors?

A. Gen. Crook had fought these Indians seven days before we did and he saw enough of them to let them alone, and he had a larger force than we had.

He remained from the 17th of June to the 15th of August waiting for reinforcements and did not think it prudent to go after those Indians.

I knew there was a large force and knew it at the time, why I was sent to the left I don't know, it was not my business to reason why, but I went.

[[An excuse or the truth - or both? If its either and most certainly both, then Captain Benteen appears to have been a coward that day. One doesn't need to look further for any more evidence to prove it. Captain Benteen knew "there was a large force and knew it at the time." [and to complete t he ensemble] "I understood it as rather a senseless order. We were on the main trail of the Indians, there were plenty of them on that trail. We had just passed through immense villages the preceding days and it was scarcely worthwhile hunting up any more, we knew there were eight or ten thousand Indians on the trail we were on." And the reason he 'turned back' was because? And no, he didn't and wasn't given permission to rescind his own orders and so calledly 'return to the main trail' - by his own admission at the COI.]]

[davel]

Good point.

Your reply also reminds me of something else that presented difficulties for me with testimony at the RCOI......the witnesses often mixed what they new to be a fact at the time of the battle i.e. "We had just passed through immense villages the preceding days" with what they only learned much later i.e."Gen. Crook had fought these Indians seven days before we did and he saw enough of them to let them alone".

The former is information that may have influenced Benteen's actions at the time and the latter couldn't possibly have.

I don't know if this type of inconsistency reflected the way things were done in 1879 or whether it was because the court was conducting an inquiry and not a court martial.

[tbw]

It wasn't the inconsistency in the way he told the story. It was how he related to it. The other thing was he said directly after that - that he didn't know of Crooks engagement at the time, but, that they had been following a large Indian trail with large encampments and quoted some figure like 10,000 Indians. The facts speak for themselves. Take out the Crook relationship, and what have you? Its the same whether Crooks name was mentioned or not. And its still spelled with a "C" and rhymes with Howard.

[joewiggs]

My gut reaction toward Benteen is that his animosity toward Custer was so prevalent that he found it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to accept orders from an individual whom he believed to be inferior to him in all matters of military expertise.

I would add just one thought to the outstanding comments from Dennis and Davel, Benteen absolutely knew his mission as evident by his correspondence to his wife shortly after the battle. The problem is that I believe he thought the "orders" he received from Custer to be idiotic. He himself stated, during the inquiry(off-handily) and, I paraphrase, "If Custer wanted to know about Indians he could have found out himself by just going straight ahead."

Moments prior to his "oblique" left, Benteen suggested to the General that if there was as many Indians as they thought their would be hadn't they "ought ta" keep the command together.

In summation, Martin arrives and jovially remarks that Reno is ripping through the village "killing" everybody! As acrimonious as Benteen's character was is it any wonder that he thought he had been duped out of his shot at "glory" by the young whipper snapper?

Only when the awful truth was discovered and, the subsequent charges of malfeasance of duty was leveled at him and Reno did Benteen resort to the disgusting allegations against Custer and the cover-up of Reno. If Benteen had not resorted to the indefensible cacophony of nonsense he spewed forth at the inquiry and, in his correspondence, history may have thought much more of him.

[Cutter]

Well, all screwed up, Reno, Benteen and Custer. It's not a surprise that those who survived will rewrite what happened at the expense of those who didn't, and can no longer speak...
Wish Wier didn't drink himself to death...

[joewiggs]

Weir, like many other officers of the time, was a heavy drinker. However, after the battle he seemed to imbibe alcohol on a whole new level. I've often asked myself why. Any answer that comes up is, of course, pure speculation.

Having made that point clear, I have a theory. Testimony at the R.C.O.I. infers that no one suspected that Custer's command had been destroyed. Isn't that odd? Thousands of Indians, some of who are carrying captured Guidons, shooting at the ground (certainly not at snakes) are whooping and hollering as they charge towards Weir's Point. Were they not still apprehensive about the village that would have been open to Custer's command once they departed? No. Custer was dead and no loner a threat. The Indians knew it and the soldiers knew it also.

Weir and every trooper on the ridge was aware that Custer was destroyed as they watched the last twenty minutes or so of their terrible demise. This horrible truth was more than Weir could live with;he drank himself to death. Benteen resorted to every mechanism possible to place the mantle of shame on the shoulders of a man he despised. Reno's cowardice was the ultimate shame upon the 7Th.

So many did so less when so much was required that,seemingly, the best solution was to let, "sleeping Dogs sleep.'

[Cutter]

Weir would have sure shaken up things at the RCOI. A good short story would be about a reporter giving him an interview.

[joewiggs]

What a fantastic idea! Imagine the tale he would have told. I'm convinced that what he saw drove him to drink until he died. He was close to the Custer clan and yet, at a moment in time, he too deserted his friend. No one blames him. His choice to flee is understandable, however, he was the one who had to live with the decision;rather died with it.

[Cutter]

Yeah, a good wordsmith with a handle of the the history could make a good read. Would like to get in Weir's head after the fight....

[joewiggs]

I have a question that I would very much like some assistance on. It's a situation that has bothered me for sometime. Unable to arrive at a reasonable conclusion, I'd be grateful for any forum input.Benteen and company observed and/or became aware that both Martin and Kanipe had come bearing important messages from Custer via the area of the bluffs north of Benteen.

Instead of going directly north in the same direction the messengers had responded from Benteen pushed west to pick up the trail that Custer has left behind sometime ago.

In addition, he never asked Kanipe nor Martin where Custer was located.
Do you all agree that if he had done either, he would have arrived to Custer's aid in sufficient time?

Please let me know what you all think!

[strange]

Benteen appeared to have such a difficult time of deciphering Martini's accent that he probably just gave up on trying to listen to him or ask any further questions and just took the note.

Quite a few people like Benteen are also covering up for much of what happened. That may feed into some controversy about Kanipe. Benty may have also been overly concerned with watring horse and I wonder if that is easier done through the route he chose.

Your point is quite a major one and yet another reason for why Benteen clearly did dawdle.