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Post by joewiggs on Jun 4, 2011 18:44:31 GMT -5
In battle things can happen that defies belief. I would like to start the ball rolling with this notice regarding a soldier who surely died; or did he. If the forum would like to add to this list examples from any battle would be fine!
Private Daniel Newell, M Co. (Camp Interview, undated, BYU):
Without watering and adequate care the suffering of the wounded was terrible. On man, McVay, was terribly shot in the abdomen. he kept begging for water, and several times I heard him say, "seventy-five dollars to the man who will bring me a drink." On the second day of the siege a number of men succeeded in getting down to the river and got a little water. McVay was begging piteously for water. I was near him and he said, "I know I am going to die, but I can't until I get a drink." Someone gave him a drink. The water ran out of the wound in his stomach, but he laid back and died in peace.
Contrary to Private Newell's prognosis, the gun shot was not fatal because McVay is listed as having been discharged at Ft. Lincoln on 11/28/77.
What should be pointed out is this relevant example of a participant (white) in the battle getting it all wrong. Not surprising as this is a natural phenomenon under stress; for both whites and Indians.
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Post by joewiggs on Jul 5, 2011 18:14:28 GMT -5
Can you believe it! In July 4, 1876 Reno wrote a letter to Sheridan. In this letter, Reno claimed that if Gibbon and Terry had attacked instead of bivouacked on the evening of June 26, the outcome of the battle might have been entirely different. Reno then goes onto explain why Gibbon should be straddled with exceptional responsibility of malfeasance of duty. "Had [Gibbon] done so the destruction of [the Indians] was certain and the expedition would not have been a failure. But the truth is he was scared!What can I say.  |
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Post by Cutter on Jul 6, 2011 10:30:04 GMT -5
That's very interesting Joe.
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Post by stumblingbear on Jul 12, 2011 19:10:31 GMT -5
Really! It's interesting that Reno wrote what he did, considering what he did not do!  |
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Post by whitebull on Jul 12, 2011 19:15:44 GMT -5
I had a uncle who couldn't remember a thing after he hung one on. When he sobered up, he could tell you all the wrong things everybody else did but nothing out of the ordinary that he did. Wonder if he was related to Reno?  |
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Post by Cutter on Jul 13, 2011 8:06:33 GMT -5
Yup, been there, done that too. In my case however, folks are only too eager to refresh my memory of my own short comings of the previous night.
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Post by joewiggs on Jul 13, 2011 20:53:20 GMT -5
Your folks too!!! |
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Post by joewiggs on Aug 6, 2011 10:38:35 GMT -5
Richard O'Connor in Wild Bill Hickok
"Tom Custer was a wild and reckless young man, who frequently drank to excess. On one of those inebriated occasions, Tom was said to have ridden through hays City shooting out lights and windows, then urging his horse into a crowed saloon, which cause considerable damage. This apparently had not been the first Tom had sent the patrons of a saloon scrambling with his horse.
Although Wild Bill was a friend of the elder Custer, enough was enough. Tom was promptly dragged off his mount by Wild bill, hauled before a justice of the peace, and fined for his rash act. Tom was incensed with Hickok over the arrest and vow revenge.
On New Year's Eve, Tom returned to hays City with three burly soldiers and hung around the saloon to wait for Hickok. When Wild Bill strolled into the establishment, the soldiers cornered and disarmed him, and it appeared that physical revenge for Tom's arrest was about to be exacted. A friendly bartender, however, tossed a loaded pistol )or shotgun) to Wild Bill, and he commenced firing. The result was that the three soldiers lay sprawled on the barroom floor, wounded but still alive. Tom Custer lit out for fort hays to seek the assistance of his brother."
Don't say much for Tom's character do it? :o
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Post by strange on Aug 7, 2011 15:14:13 GMT -5
Richard O'Connor in Wild Bill Hickok"Tom Custer was a wild and reckless young man, who frequently drank to excess. On one of those inebriated occasions, Tom was said to have ridden through hays City shooting out lights and windows, then urging his horse into a crowed saloon, which cause considerable damage. This apparently had not been the first Tom had sent the patrons of a saloon scrambling with his horse. Although Wild Bill was a friend of the elder Custer, enough was enough. Tom was promptly dragged off his mount by Wild bill, hauled before a justice of the peace, and fined for his rash act. Tom was incensed with Hickok over the arrest and vow revenge. On New Year's Eve, Tom returned to hays City with three burly soldiers and hung around the saloon to wait for Hickok. When Wild Bill strolled into the establishment, the soldiers cornered and disarmed him, and it appeared that physical revenge for Tom's arrest was about to be exacted. A friendly bartender, however, tossed a loaded pistol )or shotgun) to Wild Bill, and he commenced firing. The result was that the three soldiers lay sprawled on the barroom floor, wounded but still alive. Tom Custer lit out for fort hays to seek the assistance of his brother." Don't say much for Tom's character do it? :o Does anyone know how big these burly men were that Tom brought to exact revenge on Hickok? Any pictures? Hick is a big dude, mind you. I've mentioned that Tom is very rough around the edges. He was obviously a fine asset on the battlefield but an overtly dark sheep in public. When the big brother speaks of Tom in such favorable light most of the time, he's obviously focusing strictly on battlefield service or carefully hiding a lot of Tom's nastyness. White Buffalo is a movie where Charles Bronson got to play Hickok (hee hee) and Will Sampson got to play Crazy Horse (HAW!), the imagery and effects and performances are stunning but I really can't stand it just for the fact that they have the audacity to pull Hickok and Crazy Horse into that movie and have them played by two people who look absolutely nothing like those guys. HOWEVER.... White Buffalo is the only movie to date which features a very interesting and somewhat very accurate depiction of Tom Custer, his personality and his feud with Hickok. The actor resemblance is not perfect but I'm not entirely opposed to a bald actor playing Tom. Tom Custer had the worst hairline and I suspect some of it may have been a bit of a comb over. Had he lived longer, he would have ended up looking like Emanuel Custer. Next of coarse the actor could do with a mustache, but Tom has had his durations of clean shavenness. Its still a very educated depiction of Tom and the fact that they would have a movie with tom is worth noting all by itself. Strange |
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Post by joewiggs on Aug 7, 2011 18:21:38 GMT -5
Here's the kicker Dr. Strange, I failed to mention that Tom got permission from Sheridan (his brother was on assignment) to arrest Marshall Hickok who, fortunately, was unavailable when Tom returned.
Unlike his brother, Tom refused to take an oath of abstinence. He was truly a rough character.
Thanks for the tip regarding "White Buffalo", I'm going to get a copy of that!
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Post by Cutter on Aug 7, 2011 19:26:17 GMT -5
Good to see you Sir Strange. Hope all is well. Yup, Tom was a brave and impetuous man, made more so by his brother's glories. Is there any letters
that exsist between George and Tom?
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Post by strange on Aug 7, 2011 20:32:41 GMT -5
Good to see you Sir Strange. Hope all is well. Yup, Tom was a brave and impetuous man, made more so by his brother's glories. Is there any letters that exsist between George and Tom? I don't recall ever reading ANY kinds of writings from Tom AT ALL. I'm curious if he was either a bit less literate or just not interested in writing letters. Wer he maybe do'n too much tar spitt'n at his schoolin' desk when they was teachin' them thar lettars und thangs? ;D It would be very interesting to see any quote from Tom written by himself or observed by others. You cracked me into some interest here, Cutter. |
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Post by strange on Aug 7, 2011 20:34:48 GMT -5
Here's the kicker Dr. Strange, I failed to mention that Tom got permission from Sheridan (his brother was on assignment) to arrest Marshall Hickok who, fortunately, was unavailable when Tom returned. Unlike his brother, Tom refused to take an oath of abstinence. He was truly a rough character. Thanks for the tip regarding "White Buffalo", I'm going to get a copy of that! That movie drives me crazy. |
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Post by joewiggs on Aug 10, 2011 13:46:40 GMT -5
Can you believe it?:
The tribal identity of the Indians who killed the soldiers could be identified by the wounds of their bodies:
Those laying face down were likely killed by Cheyenne;
Slashed thigh by Sioux;
If the women and little ones got a hold of you, the body was reduced to jelly for the most part.
The viciousness of the women is often equated with their grief and anger of the death of relatives in past and current battles.
The field was said to have been littered with hands, heads, feet, and legs.
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Post by strange on Aug 10, 2011 17:22:18 GMT -5
Can you believe it?: The tribal identity of the Indians who killed the soldiers could be identified by the wounds of their bodies: Those laying face down were likely killed by Cheyenne; Slashed thigh by Sioux; If the women and little ones got a hold of you, the body was reduced to jelly for the most part. The viciousness of the women is often equated with their grief and anger of the death of relatives in past and current battles. The field was said to have been littered with hands, heads, feet, and legs. If Custer was slashed through the thigh, would this prove almost for a fact that he didn't commit suicide or would they try to claim him as theirs even just for wounding him or finding his body or being in that area? |
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