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Post by stumblingbear on Apr 14, 2012 18:14:58 GMT -5
It is really interesting how people can get together to discuss topics and not know anything about each other. For an example, CC seemed to be set in his ways and maybe "rubbed" other members in the wrong way but, what was he really like? How did he feel about other subjects. How do you feel about life, death, children, marriage, war and a thousand other things. i would love to share feelings with other members about any topic whatever. Let's get to know each other besides how strongly we feel about this battle.
I love music from the 70's. I love my daughter although she is sometimes very difficult to understand. I don't like people who do nothing to make their lives better but demand understanding and compensation for their personal problems while caring nothing about the problems of others.
I love people who smile a lot and laugh a great deal. I'm afraid of those who yell and gash their teeth when things don't go their way.
How about sharing your feelings too! :Dl
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Post by tbw on Apr 15, 2012 0:04:17 GMT -5
It is really interesting how people can get together to discuss topics and not know anything about each other. For an example, CC seemed to be set in his ways and maybe "rubbed" other members in the wrong way but, what was he really like? How did he feel about other subjects. How do you feel about life, death, children, marriage, war and a thousand other things. i would love to share feelings with other members about any topic whatever. Let's get to know each other besides how strongly we feel about this battle. I love music from the 70's. I love my daughter although she is sometimes very difficult to understand. I don't like people who do nothing to make their lives better but demand understanding and compensation for their personal problems while caring nothing about the problems of others. I love people who smile a lot and laugh a great deal. I'm afraid of those who yell and gash their teeth when things don't go their way. How about sharing your feelings too! :Dl Now that's what a forum should be doing. Both Joe and I have been involved in I don't know how many of these forums and it still amazes me how many people I don't know on a personal basis or for that matter on a very personal basis as in having met face to face. You mentioned CC. I didn't have anything personally against him. I just wished he would have given more information that formed his beliefs than he did. We all read or hear things that form our belief system, that's just the way it is, from religion to flying saucers, from whether King Tut was gay to whether or not pigs can really fly. Had he done that, I think he would have been respected for that. And you're asking is no more no less than anyone else in that regard, what was he really like outside the box-like atmosphere of the Custer discussion list here. Indeed how do we all feel about other subjects. Maybe we need to discuss these very things and there is such a place that I've made for such subjects, Weir Peak Lounge. Virtually anything can be brought up for discussion here, which you've found. How do I feel about life? Well, life in general sucks. Death, I don't like to think about, it's too damn close and so damn final, you know, that box 6 feet under with no breathing, nothing, nada, zip. Children? Just don't get me started. If you ever for a moment think they grow up, think again. And just when you think they do, think again. And each time that happens look in the mirror.... yup cause and effect guaranteed! Marriage, best damn thing that ever happened to me, I think, and don't ask. War? Now why would you ask that here - where we discuss that horrible, nasty dastardly root canal without Novocaine subject every chance we get? It like life and death, it sucks the blood out of everything, living or dead, like some kind of vampire, and sells that blood the the highest Ferengi bidder. And the 1000 other things? Well, I don't know where to start. UFO's, sure they exist, why not with all those billions and billions of stars out there, there has to be at least one planet with at least one civilization that has at least one race that knows what the hell they are doing and how to do it. To think we are arrogant enough to be the first, hell no. That covers at least 1 of 1000, 1 down 999 to go which could include the Knights Templar, Bigfoot, Helium3, Manned Space Travel, Gypsy's or other transients, transexuals, or teleportations, mind melds, Field Electronics, and the Aurora Borealis, which still isn't enough dammit. Aaaaaarrrrggghhhhhh... Music!!!! Did someone say music??? I suppose its okay. The older I get the worse I get. I suppose. Unless the title of the song is "Banks of the Ohio", or "The Fields of Athenry" by cinnamond forget it. And if someone puts one of those rap things up to my ear one more time they'll be a wear'n the damn thing. And yup I understand perfectly about compassion, there's so damn little of it to go around these days. Everyone is so wrapped up in their own miseralbe little world to notice, and it only gets worse, not better. And most of that is not due to our own doing, but to external influences beyond our control, sadly so. Just remember, It isn't a can of worms unless someone opens it. |
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Post by strange on Apr 15, 2012 7:26:27 GMT -5
My computer sits low to the floor mounted atop a pile of thick books and I'm scrunched in a little corner of my room typing frequent messages to people and frequently roaming google or youtube when I'm not hanging around one of the forums or doing work. I have a fondness for plad, flannel, or hawaiin shirts and I'm often wearing bathrobes. I don't believe in bigfoot, and I consider these types of things to be prime examples of exactly how flimsy the theory of evolution can be and to what great and desperate lengths they will go to attempt and "prove" their theory by any measure, whether it be wiring a monkey jaw to a human skull or chasing after mysterious ape men. I'm currently a big fan a of the Ultimate Warrior www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9Qp0F_g72kI made that video to stand up for him because people in the business give him a lot of flack for being a little different than they are. I like monster movies and action movies. Music wise I was a big Heavy Metal guy but nowadays I enjoy practically everything except the frick'n Beatles (although HELP! was kinda neat, I love that movie and the title song is pretty nice.). I'm probably harder on them than I should be and I apparently scarred up my vocal chords a couple years ago at Christmas when I went on a night long tirade screaming about how much I hated their guts. Hence, I developed a rather loud and gravely voice. Lately its more of a whisper of wat it once was because I've toned it down either out of fatigue or courtesy. Strange |
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Post by tbw on Apr 15, 2012 8:10:38 GMT -5
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Post by tbw on Apr 15, 2012 9:21:59 GMT -5
I guess I didn't address the generation gap SB brought up. I think each and every generation goes through this. My dad probably rolls over in his grave every time I have a brain fart, say something totally stupid in an attempt at dry humor or some dumb thing where even I can to this day see his wince, scowl and hear his retort. Why then do I keep doing it? I don't really know (and I apologize to anyone in advance or in the past here and now for it). I guess its the way I'm wired. I guess I can blame it on my parents who had me like my daughters do and then say "I don't want to be like YOU", whatever the hell that means, because I admired and honored my father and mother, so I don't understand why I would be so bad a role model other than the old age bobbles, foibles and falteralls that befalls usually about everyone at some time or another.
Yeah I know, Kids say and do the darnest things and it lasts well into their adulthood for some damn reason, I'm evidence of that. While not perfect myself I do not understand why my daughters feel the need to, in my minds eye, constantly stand on the precipice of a 1000 foot cliff 24/7 and live on that edge and put me through hell that they or their children are about to fall off. To me that isn't living, that's like living Evil Kneival every minute of every hour of every day, and for someone my age you either let them go or hold on for dear life and have that heart attack and hope the hell they have the sense god gave them, because I sure the hell didn't give it to them. And that they don't fall to far before they hit bottom, because when they do, no one will be down there with them when they do, because learning to free fall that far with a parachute without paracord is sheer stupidity. Life lines don't come cheap, and when they're to far away to throw them the paracord, there's nothing anyone is going to do about it. Yup, it was me who cut those paracord lines, lucky for me I was only half way down that 1000 foot cliff when I did it. Generation gaps, go figure, its the difference between the top of the cliff and half way down, and believe it or not its whether you take that fall or not.
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 15, 2012 10:08:36 GMT -5
WOW! I have learned so much from you guys that I hardly suspect and this knowledge opens up a whole new world of interest that is exciting. T.B.W. is so "right On" when sharing his beliefs about alien life which is doubted by so many others only because of an inherent arrogance (based upon a jealous Jehovah who wouldn't allow it) shared by human kind that "we" are the only ones. My take is that it would be impossible not to have life on other planets for no other reason that a mathematically probability dictates that there must be.
Strange you remind me so much of a young me that I can not but help feeling your enthusiasm to do all that you do and I believe you have the talent to accomplish so much more than the average person may possibly achieve. you are a true artist whose paintings exemplify the "spirit" of the portrait;the soul!
You will go far, believe me.
Your posts are always witty, informative, and heart felt.
I miss CC simply because in his departure, we missed an opportunity to soften his stance just a bit. Not to change his stance, but to help he see the other side of the fence and to realize that seldom is anything in life all of one way or the other;the exceptions being death and taxes!
Marriage can be a doorway to heaven and a doorway to hell. My second marriage was the former, the second one the latter.
Stumblingbear seems to be one of the nicest person I have ever encountered. Her posts always lean toward the positive which I very much admire. A bunch of guys like us need a soft touch.
I know Cutter is busy now with personal issues. I do miss him and hope that all will be well. His wonderful humor and great posts are sorely missed!
This is the best forum on the planet simply because a person can disagree and not be chastised or singled out as often happens on all of the other boards. Dennis is a somber, fair, and cautious Administrator who's judicial perspective always leans toward the views of the majority regardless of the subject matter. I admire him very much.
I am happily married with a darling but precocious 10 year little/old girl whom I adore. I love reading and I love discussing the Battle of the Little Big Horn. I am a different man now that I was when I was a little younger and I thank God for that! Sadly, having spending so much time as a police officer in a radically, crime ridden area did much to damage my psyche. !5 years later, a wonderful wife and residence in the great state of Oklahoma has done much to heal old wounds.
Sharing my thoughts with you all has been a wonderful experience that I will always cherish!
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Post by strange on Apr 15, 2012 18:58:42 GMT -5
Yeah, I'll be really looking forward to what Cutter has to say if he pops around here again.
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Post by whitebull on Apr 15, 2012 19:59:03 GMT -5
I'm not what you would call a deep thinker and I'm pretty shy when I'm in a group of people. I like reading a lot and actually I have not been reading about Custer for a very long time. I'm learning a lot from you guys though and I enjoy reading what you all have to say. I'm sure learning a lot though! I wish there was a lot less sadness and greed in the world. It kills me when I see people slobbering all over riches as though they think they can take it with them. I can't understand why innocent children are murdered and violated by animals that walk up-right. I use to believe in a God who cared about all his little children and then a big wave comes up unannounced and wipes out thousands of innocent people in Japan, and a man like Hitler is allowed to murder 6 million people and so on and so on. The only thing in this life that gives me the jitters is dying! it will be the first thing I ever had to do by myself.  |
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Post by tbw on Apr 16, 2012 9:01:38 GMT -5
I'm not what you would call a deep thinker and I'm pretty shy when I'm in a group of people. I like reading a lot and actually I have not been reading about Custer for a very long time. I'm learning a lot from you guys though and I enjoy reading what you all have to say. I'm sure learning a lot though! I wish there was a lot less sadness and greed in the world. It kills me when I see people slobbering all over riches as though they think they can take it with them. I can't understand why innocent children are murdered and violated by animals that walk up-right. I use to believe in a God who cared about all his little children and then a big wave comes up unannounced and wipes out thousands of innocent people in Japan, and a man like Hitler is allowed to murder 6 million people and so on and so on. The only thing in this life that gives me the jitters is dying! it will be the first thing I ever had to do by myself. Faith based belief in and of itself is a poor fit for mankind. It relies solely upon such faith as an example of a devotion to a principle beyond belief in many an instance that in and of itself is in reality nothing but mysticism. As with all faiths there is the principles of good and evil and the embodiments associated with them. Quite naturally in most instances we associate them with two arms, two legs, 1 head, 2 eyes, 2 ears etc. This much the same way we see the envisionment of alien beings from outer space. And of course Christ himself did little to discourage the thought that such god like beings could be different than we are, after all, we were supposed to be created in their image. But what harsh realities do exist out there in outer space? The endlessness that apparently exist, that is impossibly imaginable to our senses. How far removed from reality is "The War of The Worlds" that back in the 30's scared the crapola out of the Radio generation that heard it, is it for us? The mere mention of "The Harvest" brings shutters of imagination, especially when the bread from which "The Harvest" comes from is consumed as the body as is the wine, which is also "Harvested" and consumed as the blood. Which does beckon the question: Is there really a merciful god out there somewhere to save us from such a hell on earth, OR? Is this one of many driving forces that drives people into the churches and prayer? And what of old age? How many a time does one drive by churches on Sunday and see old folk by the droves, many with cane in hand or supported by a yound loved one going to pray to their god? Is it because they know their time here is limited and they need to make peace with their maker before they go? Yet another driving force to pray to their maker? Do they know? Or is it really just faith and a belief based on that faith as in mysticism? I was once asked; if there was a 99% chance that there was no god and a 1% chance that there was, which would I choose? For me there wasn't a doubt in my mind, for I already knew the answer, and it wasn't based on faith. Knowledge is power. You have to know. You must know. Without it, all that is left is the mysticism of the shaman, witchdoctor, the soothsayer, the pharisees, and Sadducee's. Do you know? Me? I'm not saying. It's not my job to say. I'm not a preacher. I'm not a teacher. Each of us must go through our own life's school of hard knocks, bumps and bruises, successes and failures to find out for ourselves, and no one but you can tell you, and, no one but you should. |
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 21, 2012 19:47:44 GMT -5
Once again, you are batting a thousand! When faith in any religion becomes so fundamental in and of it's self, that all other faiths are perceived as an ungodly error, then the most horrific crimes against man are introduced and justified as a holy mandate from Jehovah, Allah, and/or Christ.
Thus the birth of thousands of Muslim men and women willing to blow themselves up in order to kill infidels in the name of Allah. Blood thirsty assassins who murder medical doctors at their dinner tables for performing abortions against the will of Christ. Horrific acts of terror committed every day all in the name of religion.
Faith, misused and misunderstood, only serves to separate man from his fellow man. A separation augmented with nuclear weapons that may, sadly, finally unite all mankind in death.
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Post by strange on Apr 21, 2012 20:38:17 GMT -5
Once again, you are batting a thousand! When faith in any religion becomes so fundamental in and of it's self, that all other faiths are perceived as an ungodly error, then the most horrific crimes against man are introduced and justified as a holy mandate from Jehovah, Allah, and/or Christ. Thus the birth of thousands of Muslim men and women willing to blow themselves up in order to kill infidels in the name of Allah. Blood thirsty assassins who murder medical doctors at their dinner tables for performing abortions against the will of Christ. Horrific acts of terror committed every day all in the name of religion. Faith, misused and misunderstood, only serves to separate man from his fellow man. A separation augmented with nuclear weapons that may, sadly, finally unite all mankind in death. I really don't mind the killing of abortion doctors. Some people have their limits of how much they're gonna put up with, and thats when people start putting on the John Brown hat. Life is life, there are death penalties for murder. A person who kills a pregnant woman is responsible for two deaths, likewise a doctor who extracts and destroys a child is likewise accountable. Especially terrible are the late term ones and even post birth abortions, ones that Obama supports. All of them are precious, but there's definitely no gray area on the late and post birth abortions. If they can do that without having someone react then it would be a terrible shame. Be that as it may, God's word advises to obey the laws of the land. Most of the fuller Christians will understand that and practice it. It would still be advisable not to push it. |
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Post by stumblingbear on Apr 22, 2012 9:15:38 GMT -5
What you say is very true Strange and I understand that ending a small life is horrible to many people. What is the answer to a problem that has been out there for so long with no resolution? Somehow, gunning down the doctor is just as terrible to me as terminating a birth, if not more so. What a dilemma! |
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Post by whitebull on Apr 22, 2012 16:50:20 GMT -5
People have been arguing for a long time about abortions and whether it's right or wrong. My thinking is that until we find a way to stop abortions forever there will never be a answer that everyone can agree with. You can't keep killing babies without rousing the dander of a lot of folk!
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Post by tbw on Apr 23, 2012 11:34:17 GMT -5
Once again, you are batting a thousand! When faith in any religion becomes so fundamental in and of it's self, that all other faiths are perceived as an ungodly error, then the most horrific crimes against man are introduced and justified as a holy mandate from Jehovah, Allah, and/or Christ. Thus the birth of thousands of Muslim men and women willing to blow themselves up in order to kill infidels in the name of Allah. Blood thirsty assassins who murder medical doctors at their dinner tables for performing abortions against the will of Christ. Horrific acts of terror committed every day all in the name of religion. Faith, misused and misunderstood, only serves to separate man from his fellow man. A separation augmented with nuclear weapons that may, sadly, finally unite all mankind in death. Faith, as the name implies relies solely upon interpretation of 'the word'. And the words over the centuries have been skewed to become what man has chosen to make them, not what was originally written and intended. One need look no further than the Christian practice of observing Christmas to understand this. But if someone was to speak against this practice as pagan and unholy, oh say like a sect opposed to Christianity, it would be fighting words for sure to defend the the long held practice and faith. Along with this the Easter Egg and its bunny exhibits the same, but for some reason those aren't cherished in Christian churches as much as sprigs of mistletoe and lighted trees are, go figure. True to form, all religions abuse, misuse and misinterpret 'the HOLY word' of their God. Though once again they will say they don't, but they hypocritically and rather ignorantly do. So What about Christmas and Saint Nicholas? IT was always thought that Christmas and St. Nick evolved from Pagan practices and Ritual. But, there are some interesting parallels to another event that precludes St. Nick’s actions and places him and his actions in a more Christian way than may have been thought. St. Nick since time immemorial has always been admired for his Piety and kindness, and was and still is a champion of the poor, especially children, and he has always been considered legendary for his generosity. Today we place all to much significance upon his kindness and generosity, and forget his piety. A religious devotion and his strong respectful belief in the Christian God and his strict observance of religious principles in everyday life; for St. Nicholas was a holy man first and foremost. No this isn’t a religious sermon! And as you will discover, St. Nick’s actions and beliefs, holiness, zeal, and astonishing miracles closely paralleled another Saint of the time. One that isn’t mentioned in association with Christmas, but one that perhaps should be, because it was St. Nicholas who picked up the torch of this other Saint’s Canon of faith and through legend and lore has become what we know him as today. It was thought that the Roman holiday of the Saturnalia was the origins of Christmas, for the customs and practices surrounding that pagan holiday closely resemble our own today and for a very good reason. Rome was well known to adopt other Gods from other cultures as it suited them. And Mithra was adopted from Persia or modern day Iran. In Persia, He was the god of light.. He is depicted on bas relief’s as slaying the holy bull, and so giving life to the earth. And the Roman army adopted him as their god. So much so, he was very often referred to as the soldiers' god. It’s said that the Roman God Saturn came from the Greek god Kronos. Yet these importations have became muddled over the years since and the two were, Mithras and Kronos were merged into one to form a New Roman god - Saturn. The Roman emperor Valerian in 274 AD declared December 25th the Birthday of Sol Invictus, the Unconquerable Sun. This sun-god Mithras, was supposedly born during the winter solstice of a virgin in a cave on December 25. And was worshipped on the day of the conquering sun (ie the origins of Sun-day). It should be remembered here what also was occurring in Christian circles, and what St. Nicholas was or wasn’t doing. Valerians decree came 6 years before St. Nicholas’s birth: In 280 AD in Patara, a city in Lycia, in Asia Minor. In the early part of this same century, Hippolytus, Bishop of Rome recognized January 2nd as the date of Christ’s birth. That should have been that, but other’s challenged him and reasoned that since Christ was conceived on March 25th, he had to have been born on December 25th. Then the change in Calendars happened, which pushed back that date to January 7th. So Valerian’s decree may or may not have been the cause of the 25th date. And it may or may not have been true. Saturn’s origins are as mysterious as they are set in the stone that still stand, and perhaps for a reason greater than one would expect. And as the myth should read: Mithras died and was resurrected to become a messenger god, an intercessor between the (good) god of light & man. He was to lead the forces of righteousness (thus a soldier of God) against the forces of the dark god of evil. [Any of this sound familiar in any way yet?] This great god, having died in the midst of his glory and power, was always symbolized as a great tree, stripped of all branches, and cut of to the ground. His resurrection, the symbol of life, was the great Serpent, which twisted itself around the dead tree, and in the snakes side sprouts a young tree. This day, December 25th was then observed in Rome when Saturn reappeared (the resurrected Mithras), and thus the proclamation by the Roman emperor Valerian came to be. The Emperor Constantine in the 4th century (312 during the time of St. Nicholas, (he would have been 32 at the time) again re-affirmed Valerian’s decree and also designated December 25, as the birthday of Jesus Christ: which also coincided with the birth of Mithra (& not by any coincidence Saturn‘s) according to Valerian. By Constantine’s act the true Savior was placed among the pantheon of Roman gods. And Constantine succeeded by drawing Christians into the pagan celebrations of Rome. In honor of Saturn, they held great feast’s and celebration’s on his birthday December 25th. (This was called the Feasts of Saturnalia): It was to be a time of perfect prosperity and harmony: Battles, wars, bickering and fighting were not done, Laws were dismissed and crimes and injustices forgiven, and slaves became their masters. It was a time of plenty for the feasts and no one was denied food, drink or merriment: Peace and goodwill reigned supreme - even among animals. [Okay, now if you don't see the similarity yet, there is something definitey wrong here!] These same traditions stretch way back to Mithra’s celebrations and customs in Iran, which today are over 4000 years old. During the celebration lasting one day on December 25th, the Romans would exchange small gifts, some made of wax a precious gift as the time. They decorated their temples with evergreens, usually pine. And an extravagant meal was served to one and all. And the dress of the day was informal. They held races, hunts, games and played sports. It was indeed a great day of celebration in honor of Saturn to which the Christians by Constantine’s recognition of Christ’s birthday on the same day - were also graciously invited. The soldiers in the Roman army also venerated Saturn and held in his honor on his birthday, the 25th of December a celebration of a different kind. It was their custom of putting a mock king to death. They chose a man (a soldier no less) among them who played the part of Saturn (Mithras) and crowned the King of Saturnalia; and he then enjoyed all the traditional privileges of the God Saturn for that season; which lasted from November 25 to December 25th. He then was required to die, by his own or another's hand on December 25th, it didn’t matter as long as he died. And the method of execution mattered little, whether by the gallows or the sword or in the fire of a pile of logs (Yule logs anyone?) He was to play the character of a good God who gave his life for the world. [Anyone ready to say it yet? Jeee....Ch...]. Now comes a most curious account during the reign of Diocletian where Roman soldiers being stationed on the Danube were celebrating Saturnalia. Enter in the soldier Dasius. Dasius was a Christian soldier serving Rome on the Danube, and in the year 303 AD lots were cast and Dasius was chosen to be the God Saturn. (Very important note here: In this same year under the same rule of Diocletian St. Nicholas was imprisoned for not wanting to be a God. St. Nicholas’s Piety getting in the way!) Dasius was to be clothed in royal attire to appear as Saturn. Thus all decked out and celebrated by his group of comrade soldiers; he was to go about in public with full authorization to humor his passions and pleasures care-fee, however shameful or sordid they were to be. If his reign was merry, and they, his comrades saw to it - that it would be; his reign was to be short and it was to end sadly in his death; for on the 25th of December, he was expected to cut his own throat upon Saturn’s altar - the altar of god who he would impersonate. In that year 303 AD, the Christian soldier Dasius, refused to play the part of Saturn, a heathen god and sully his last days by self indulgence. His commanding officer a man by the name of Bassus could not shake Dasius’s faith through threat of storm of words. Dasius, ritual or not, was beheaded by a man named John on the 25th day of November at Durostorum, on the Danube in Lower Moesia, Bulgaria. The documentation of St. Nicholas is pretty air tight, and rightly adjusted to their historical significance. But what about St. Dasius? [Yup, I said Saint Dasius, the Catholic Church so honored him for his faith.] In a crypt of a cathedral that was in San Pellegrino, Italy lay a white marble sarcophagus with Greek inscription upon it - it said, “Here lies the holy martyr Dasius, brought from Durostorum.” Today this sarcophagus lays in a crypt of a cathedral in Ancona, Italy. And it was transferred there according to records in 1848, and had been at San Pellegrino, Italy as early as 1650. What is remarkable is the story lines of the two Saints. Each refused to impersonate or be a God of Rome due to their piety. One was imprisoned, one executed. Both of these events occurred in the same year, at the same time of year, in the year 303 AD under the same Emperor, Diocletian. And the connection between St. Nicholas and St. Dasius is? For those who wish Christmas to be more Christ like, I don’t think we have to look much further. For the tradition is rooted deep in Christianity, no matter what the Romans did or didn't do, according to the Catholic church or should we say, what they failed to do. |
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Post by strange on Apr 23, 2012 21:00:55 GMT -5
Once again, you are batting a thousand! When faith in any religion becomes so fundamental in and of it's self, that all other faiths are perceived as an ungodly error, then the most horrific crimes against man are introduced and justified as a holy mandate from Jehovah, Allah, and/or Christ. Thus the birth of thousands of Muslim men and women willing to blow themselves up in order to kill infidels in the name of Allah. Blood thirsty assassins who murder medical doctors at their dinner tables for performing abortions against the will of Christ. Horrific acts of terror committed every day all in the name of religion. Faith, misused and misunderstood, only serves to separate man from his fellow man. A separation augmented with nuclear weapons that may, sadly, finally unite all mankind in death. Faith, as the name implies relies solely upon interpretation of 'the word'. And the words over the centuries have been skewed to become what man has chosen to make them, not what was originally written and intended. One need look no further than the Christian practice of observing Christmas to understand this. But if someone was to speak against this practice as pagan and unholy, oh say like a sect opposed to Christianity, it would be fighting words for sure to defend the the long held practice and faith. Along with this the Easter Egg and its bunny exhibits the same, but for some reason those aren't cherished in Christian churches as much as sprigs of mistletoe and lighted trees are, go figure. True to form, all religions abuse, misuse and misinterpret 'the HOLY word' of their God. Though once again they will say they don't, but they hypocritically and rather ignorantly do. So What about Christmas and Saint Nicholas? IT was always thought that Christmas and St. Nick evolved from Pagan practices and Ritual. But, there are some interesting parallels to another event that precludes St. Nick’s actions and places him and his actions in a more Christian way than may have been thought. St. Nick since time immemorial has always been admired for his Piety and kindness, and was and still is a champion of the poor, especially children, and he has always been considered legendary for his generosity. Today we place all to much significance upon his kindness and generosity, and forget his piety. A religious devotion and his strong respectful belief in the Christian God and his strict observance of religious principles in everyday life; for St. Nicholas was a holy man first and foremost. No this isn’t a religious sermon! And as you will discover, St. Nick’s actions and beliefs, holiness, zeal, and astonishing miracles closely paralleled another Saint of the time. One that isn’t mentioned in association with Christmas, but one that perhaps should be, because it was St. Nicholas who picked up the torch of this other Saint’s Canon of faith and through legend and lore has become what we know him as today. It was thought that the Roman holiday of the Saturnalia was the origins of Christmas, for the customs and practices surrounding that pagan holiday closely resemble our own today and for a very good reason. Rome was well known to adopt other Gods from other cultures as it suited them. And Mithra was adopted from Persia or modern day Iran. In Persia, He was the god of light.. He is depicted on bas relief’s as slaying the holy bull, and so giving life to the earth. And the Roman army adopted him as their god. So much so, he was very often referred to as the soldiers' god. It’s said that the Roman God Saturn came from the Greek god Kronos. Yet these importations have became muddled over the years since and the two were, Mithras and Kronos were merged into one to form a New Roman god - Saturn. The Roman emperor Valerian in 274 AD declared December 25th the Birthday of Sol Invictus, the Unconquerable Sun. This sun-god Mithras, was supposedly born during the winter solstice of a virgin in a cave on December 25. And was worshipped on the day of the conquering sun (ie the origins of Sun-day). It should be remembered here what also was occurring in Christian circles, and what St. Nicholas was or wasn’t doing. Valerians decree came 6 years before St. Nicholas’s birth: In 280 AD in Patara, a city in Lycia, in Asia Minor. In the early part of this same century, Hippolytus, Bishop of Rome recognized January 2nd as the date of Christ’s birth. That should have been that, but other’s challenged him and reasoned that since Christ was conceived on March 25th, he had to have been born on December 25th. Then the change in Calendars happened, which pushed back that date to January 7th. So Valerian’s decree may or may not have been the cause of the 25th date. And it may or may not have been true. Saturn’s origins are as mysterious as they are set in the stone that still stand, and perhaps for a reason greater than one would expect. And as the myth should read: Mithras died and was resurrected to become a messenger god, an intercessor between the (good) god of light & man. He was to lead the forces of righteousness (thus a soldier of God) against the forces of the dark god of evil. [Any of this sound familiar in any way yet?] This great god, having died in the midst of his glory and power, was always symbolized as a great tree, stripped of all branches, and cut of to the ground. His resurrection, the symbol of life, was the great Serpent, which twisted itself around the dead tree, and in the snakes side sprouts a young tree. This day, December 25th was then observed in Rome when Saturn reappeared (the resurrected Mithras), and thus the proclamation by the Roman emperor Valerian came to be. The Emperor Constantine in the 4th century (312 during the time of St. Nicholas, (he would have been 32 at the time) again re-affirmed Valerian’s decree and also designated December 25, as the birthday of Jesus Christ: which also coincided with the birth of Mithra (& not by any coincidence Saturn‘s) according to Valerian. By Constantine’s act the true Savior was placed among the pantheon of Roman gods. And Constantine succeeded by drawing Christians into the pagan celebrations of Rome. In honor of Saturn, they held great feast’s and celebration’s on his birthday December 25th. (This was called the Feasts of Saturnalia): It was to be a time of perfect prosperity and harmony: Battles, wars, bickering and fighting were not done, Laws were dismissed and crimes and injustices forgiven, and slaves became their masters. It was a time of plenty for the feasts and no one was denied food, drink or merriment: Peace and goodwill reigned supreme - even among animals. [Okay, now if you don't see the similarity yet, there is something definitey wrong here!] These same traditions stretch way back to Mithra’s celebrations and customs in Iran, which today are over 4000 years old. During the celebration lasting one day on December 25th, the Romans would exchange small gifts, some made of wax a precious gift as the time. They decorated their temples with evergreens, usually pine. And an extravagant meal was served to one and all. And the dress of the day was informal. They held races, hunts, games and played sports. It was indeed a great day of celebration in honor of Saturn to which the Christians by Constantine’s recognition of Christ’s birthday on the same day - were also graciously invited. The soldiers in the Roman army also venerated Saturn and held in his honor on his birthday, the 25th of December a celebration of a different kind. It was their custom of putting a mock king to death. They chose a man (a soldier no less) among them who played the part of Saturn (Mithras) and crowned the King of Saturnalia; and he then enjoyed all the traditional privileges of the God Saturn for that season; which lasted from November 25 to December 25th. He then was required to die, by his own or another's hand on December 25th, it didn’t matter as long as he died. And the method of execution mattered little, whether by the gallows or the sword or in the fire of a pile of logs (Yule logs anyone?) He was to play the character of a good God who gave his life for the world. [Anyone ready to say it yet? Jeee....Ch...]. Now comes a most curious account during the reign of Diocletian where Roman soldiers being stationed on the Danube were celebrating Saturnalia. Enter in the soldier Dasius. Dasius was a Christian soldier serving Rome on the Danube, and in the year 303 AD lots were cast and Dasius was chosen to be the God Saturn. (Very important note here: In this same year under the same rule of Diocletian St. Nicholas was imprisoned for not wanting to be a God. St. Nicholas’s Piety getting in the way!) Dasius was to be clothed in royal attire to appear as Saturn. Thus all decked out and celebrated by his group of comrade soldiers; he was to go about in public with full authorization to humor his passions and pleasures care-fee, however shameful or sordid they were to be. If his reign was merry, and they, his comrades saw to it - that it would be; his reign was to be short and it was to end sadly in his death; for on the 25th of December, he was expected to cut his own throat upon Saturn’s altar - the altar of god who he would impersonate. In that year 303 AD, the Christian soldier Dasius, refused to play the part of Saturn, a heathen god and sully his last days by self indulgence. His commanding officer a man by the name of Bassus could not shake Dasius’s faith through threat of storm of words. Dasius, ritual or not, was beheaded by a man named John on the 25th day of November at Durostorum, on the Danube in Lower Moesia, Bulgaria. The documentation of St. Nicholas is pretty air tight, and rightly adjusted to their historical significance. But what about St. Dasius? [Yup, I said Saint Dasius, the Catholic Church so honored him for his faith.] In a crypt of a cathedral that was in San Pellegrino, Italy lay a white marble sarcophagus with Greek inscription upon it - it said, “Here lies the holy martyr Dasius, brought from Durostorum.” Today this sarcophagus lays in a crypt of a cathedral in Ancona, Italy. And it was transferred there according to records in 1848, and had been at San Pellegrino, Italy as early as 1650. What is remarkable is the story lines of the two Saints. Each refused to impersonate or be a God of Rome due to their piety. One was imprisoned, one executed. Both of these events occurred in the same year, at the same time of year, in the year 303 AD under the same Emperor, Diocletian. And the connection between St. Nicholas and St. Dasius is? For those who wish Christmas to be more Christ like, I don’t think we have to look much further. For the tradition is rooted deep in Christianity, no matter what the Romans did or didn't do, according to the Catholic church or should we say, what they failed to do. Christ is supposed to actually have been conceived in December and been born around September. My preacher goes into that in greater detail. Its a good gesture to celebrate Christmas and it does have its significance, but it should be noted that Passover is the bigger and more important holy day that eludes everyone's attention. Passover's origin was in the Ten Plagues of Egypt when the first born males were being killed and God ordered his own people to smear Lamb's Blood on their front doors so that the wrath would "pass over" and spare them. Christ himself then alter became out Passover when he was crucified. Sheri Lewis did a jewish passover special that reran recently. I tried very hard to watch it because I'm a big fan of Lamb Chop (when I was a kid it was Lamb Chop and Barney, Barney was my favorite but he's one of those things that people quickly grow out of whereas Lamb Chop is more timeless along with most of the other stuff I like and still do). The special started off nice enough but then it got into a weird children's song (sung by the guy who played Benson!) about the ten plagues and thats when it started feeling tacky and I ad to walk out (plus I was tired and had to go to sleep). You can all probably guess that no one mentioned the smearing of the Lamb's Blood during any of the show! ;D I read that Saint Nicholas was just 5 feet tall! He might have more in common with the elves it seems. Strange |
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