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Post by strange on May 21, 2012 16:37:32 GMT -5
There is a peculiar phenomenon where people seem to wanna pick up on the worst characteristics of their favorite role models. I will call this the Babe Ruth Effect because he seems to be one of the most glaring examples. Of all the great things Babe Ruth has done, his fans will mostly celebrate his decadence and completely forget about the rigorous training and lifelong acquaintance with his sport that made him good at it. His boasts of decadence were only tolerable for as long as his immensely powerful body could handle it and then it completely crumbled him.
This also applies to military commanders. People will hear about Patton and then they'll start picking up on all of his crassness but but very few of the real qualities that made him incredible.
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Post by tbw on May 22, 2012 9:31:55 GMT -5
There is a peculiar phenomenon where people seem to wanna pick up on the worst characteristics of their favorite role models. I will call this the Babe Ruth Effect because he seems to be one of the most glaring examples. Of all the great things Babe Ruth has done, his fans will mostly celebrate his decadence and completely forget about the rigorous training and lifelong acquaintance with his sport that made him good at it. His boasts of decadence were only tolerable for as long as his immensely powerful body could handle it and then it completely crumbled him. This also applies to military commanders. People will hear about Patton and then they'll start picking up on all of his crassness but but very few of the real qualities that made him incredible. Sir Strange, I think you have hit upon something that lies at the heart and soul of many an opinion. The admiration of a character's trait or traits that makes them more favorable than another. The "crassness" you mentioned being just one among many a trait to be admired while stating in pertpetuity they have no hero's. But this is the very foundation of what hero worship is. Retro to the little boys whose daddy's are the bestest. Why would this be so? Merely because its their daddy? Maybe so, but when you hear them arguing, what do they say? "Oh yeah, well my Dad...." where the following is usually some stated character traits where they are the best, better, bestest than the others dad is. Its not all that surprising to find full grown men then taking this into full adulthood and if not corrected in early childhood or at boot camp in basic training, they'll still be swimming in a diaper full of it in the geriatrics ward. Finding whats real is really what its all about. That life, and many a time, what goes on around us as we grow, learn and mature, isn't always about us, what we do, or for that matter, what we know. That life and the world around us is a shared experience, as the famous Ripley would say, believe it or not. It's when that shared experience becomes less important to some than what they feel they know, feel they do, or feel is all about them is more important than anything else. There have been those who in adulthood have easily climbed to the top of their caste only to sit in a lonely room with nothing on but training pants trying to learn and understand the secret of life. And while this was true of Hughes, did he ever understand the meaning of life and maybe what he was here to do? We still see this manifest itself in many variations of the same dementia. I wonder, did he share in anything before his death or die the pifitul self centered egotistical maniac he had become? |
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Post by joewiggs on May 25, 2012 15:53:34 GMT -5
I would also like to mention the theory that people are pre-conceived to think highly of those who have traits that they admire and the opposite sentiment occurs toward people do not admire;and heaven help those who try to change their minds with facts.  You may ask a million people if Custer disobeyed Terry's orders and everyone who believed Custer to be rash, self centered and reckless will say that he did! Everyone who believes that Custer was brave,brash, and an astute leader of men will say he certainly did not! Ironically, the steps that Custer actually did or did not take in the battle became obscured, muddled, and altered in every discussion, by everyone involved, for the last 130 years or so;including me!  |
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Post by stumblingbear on May 26, 2012 20:42:42 GMT -5
The one thing we can never know is what is in the heart of a person when he or she faces a lot of stress, the kind of stress that over powers you when facing a really bad predicament like serious injury and/or death.
When the terrible moment is over, the rest of the world stands ready to judge what we did or did not do. Was Reno a coward? It doesn't matter. Did he do what was expected of him? That matters.
Were there 9,000 Indians against 600 soldiers or so? That does not matter either? What does matter to me is whether the soldiers fought to the best of their ability. If they did they were brave souls who died following orders.
Were the Indians savages because they fought back to save their families? No, they were only human like the rest of us.
I don't know how much sense I'm making but what I'm trying to say is let us learn more and judge less.
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Post by whitebull on Jun 6, 2012 13:52:12 GMT -5
I believe you guys may be missing Stranges' point. it is the bad traits of a hero that people like to copy that he is talking about. Remember when we were kids and everyone wanted to be the pirate with the sword, or the gun fighter who shot everyone up on sight, or the gang leader that everyone around him feared. Maybe the not so nice part of us is the part that is exciting to think about and to act out? There's a little bit of the bad in all of us and I've seen it on some of these forums! |
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Post by tbw on Jun 7, 2012 17:55:21 GMT -5
I believe you guys may be missing Stranges' point. it is the bad traits of a hero that people like to copy that he is talking about. Remember when we were kids and everyone wanted to be the pirate with the sword, or the gun fighter who shot everyone up on sight, or the gang leader that everyone around him feared. Maybe the not so nice part of us is the part that is exciting to think about and to act out? There's a little bit of the bad in all of us and I've seen it on some of these forums! I apologise to Sir Strange if that was his intent and I missed the boat on that one. And it goes back the the child thing once again, "My dad, your dad..." Most of those who choose to play a certain hero or model themselves after such, very often have a very different idea of what a hero should be or do or for that matter how they hold their mouth when they load a pistol. I guess if you had been in Chu Chi Vietnam and a commander decided that he should disobey his orders because he considered those orders his commander gave him as being nuts - because the Central Highlands could take care of themselves without going there - and he got a bunch of Montagnards killed because of that decision, but won the battle of An Loc because he had an Abrams tank, then he'd be a hero because a lucky shot just missed his boot heel as he climbed out of it, then sure, lets play hero's buddy, and I'll be the VC to make damn sure there are none. Read that as underdog, because I'll play that game over and over because I never did like that damn Sherman tank and would take that Panther any day over it. But that's just a game preference, isn't it? |
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Post by strange on Jul 4, 2012 9:13:39 GMT -5
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Post by joewiggs on Jul 4, 2012 9:40:41 GMT -5
The apple falls not far from the tree! Your Mother is a talented vocalist and a fantastic songwriter as well. Happy 4Th.!  |
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