|
|
Post by whitebull on Oct 12, 2012 19:27:16 GMT -5
The Myth:the narrow pass of Thermopylae was held for three days against a vast Persian army by just 300 Spartans, 299 of which perished. The Truth: Although there were 300 Spartans at the defense of Thermopylae, there were at least 4,000 allies involved on the first two days and 1,500 men involved in the fatal last stand. Still a tiny figure compared to the forces against them, but more than the legend which forgets contributors. Background:The Spartans, a brutal people with arguably the most militaristic culture in history (Spartans could only reach manhood once they killed a slave) agreed to defend Thermopylae. I had no clue above the above and was shocked to read it. You can't help but feel that more than one "historical fact" ain't so historical after all!  Plus, was the dead "slave" armed when he was killed by the Spartan? Anybody got a clue?
|
|
|
|
Post by stumblingbear on Oct 13, 2012 13:09:50 GMT -5
Interesting stuff. I remember reading that the Spartans brought a bunch of their slaves with them forcing them to fight as well. it seems to be that the "numbers" were reduced here like the number's of the Indians may have been exaggerated for a similar purpose. The higher the number of the enemy when faced by a much smaller group, the more tragic the loss.
The second part of this formula is that it only works when the smaller group gets to write the ending. ;D
|
|
|
|
Post by joewiggs on Oct 14, 2012 9:52:15 GMT -5
It's strange but, a possibility may exist that Leonidas (a highly superstitious individual as were most people in that era) who received a "prophecy" that a King of Sparta would give up his life to save Sparta. To any Spartan, let alone the King, a death of this type would be an honor to great to pass. To a Spartan dieing an old man was a fate worse than death. To die an honorable death in combat was so great an honor that such a violent demise was sought after. In summation, it may have been that the great Leonidas rushed in were wise men refuse to go taking his Royal body guard with him! |
|
|
|
Post by whitebull on Oct 14, 2012 14:28:50 GMT -5
Every male in Sparta had to serve in their military. But, there was no better honor than to be part of the "Hippeis" who were the King's personal bodyguard. Everybody respected them. The bodyguard was made of 300 Spartans. Do you think the word "Hippie" cam from all this. If it did, man what a change of events. |
|
|
|
Post by stumblingbear on Oct 14, 2012 17:08:15 GMT -5
"Xerxes amassed a huge army formed from 46 nations and commanded by 29 Persian generals to launch an attack against Greece. Gold raiment marked the 10,000 immortals,elite Persian and Median soldiers allowed to bring their concubines and servants on the march. The navy of 1,200 ships was mostly furnished by the Phoenicians, Egyptians, Anatolia's, and by the Dorian, Aeolian, and Ionian Greeks.
Half pf the Persian Imperial Army was used -about 180,000 men. So confident were they that when they caught three men in Sardis spying for the Greek allies, they showed them the vast army and let them go to make their report."
It seems that ancient armies were allowed to travel with all the comforts of home!
When the Babylonians rebelled against Xerxes, he not only ruthlessly defeated them, he demanded and received a thousand talents of silver and 500 boys for eunuchs.
How terrible was life then, that 500 children could be misused in such a horrible way?!
|
|
|
|
Post by strange on Oct 15, 2012 21:50:58 GMT -5
" Xerxes amassed a huge army formed from 46 nations and commanded by 29 Persian generals to launch an attack against Greece. Gold raiment marked the 10,000 immortals,elite Persian and Median soldiers allowed to bring their concubines and servants on the march. The navy of 1,200 ships was mostly furnished by the Phoenicians, Egyptians, Anatolia's, and by the Dorian, Aeolian, and Ionian Greeks.
Half pf the Persian Imperial Army was used -about 180,000 men. So confident were they that when they caught three men in Sardis spying for the Greek allies, they showed them the vast army and let them go to make their report."It seems that ancient armies were allowed to travel with all the comforts of home! When the Babylonians rebelled against Xerxes, he not only ruthlessly defeated them, he demanded and received a thousand talents of silver and 500 boys for eunuchs. How terrible was life then, that 500 children could be misused in such a horrible way?! Yeah, the Spartans were big A'holes. Hitler was apparently very enthusiastic about them and embraced eugenics as a result. They were very, very bad evil people. They eventually tossed kids over a cliff if they did not fit their likings and then they made the other ones into something similar to what we see in Kurt Russell's "Soldier" movie. Thrown into intense military training from an early age, killed or severely punished if they fell short. Charles Atlas and Bruno Sammartino were very lucky to be born here in America. Here in our country, people can start off puny and eventually become the greatest athletes on earth. Strange |
|
|
|
Post by joewiggs on Oct 18, 2012 16:25:54 GMT -5
Dr. Strange, you are soooooooooooocorrect! The primary wish, desire, need, and hope was to be a good soldier or married to one. Between the 6Th. to 4Th. centuries BC, it was an accepted fact that "one Spartan was worth several men from any other state."
Unfortunately, as you pointed out, these men were brutal, self absorbed, and not nice at all. I didn't know that Hitler admired this group but it certainly does not come as a surprise!
|
|
|
|
Post by whitebull on Oct 18, 2012 19:50:08 GMT -5
When I watched "Zulu Dawn" I thought that everyone in the camp was killed but i found the following when I looked up information about the battle. ""Only two bandsmen and a groom of the 24th. survived. Three serving with the rocket battery and four with the Mounted infantry had also survived." What happened with the "British Square" that was suppose to be the state of art for war in that century?  |
|
|
|
Post by tbw on Oct 18, 2012 22:03:32 GMT -5
Every male in Sparta had to serve in their military. But, there was no better honor than to be part of the "Hippeis" who were the King's personal bodyguard. Everybody respected them. The bodyguard was made of 300 Spartans. Do you think the word "Hippie" cam from all this. If it did, man what a change of events. Could of had several etymologies. I don't think it went back that far based upon what little I do know of the Greek lingo and what it meant. The first: Eurystheus' daughter Admete wanted the belt of Hippolyte, a gift to the queen of the Amazons from the god of war, Ares. Hercules, taking a band of friends with him set sail. On the way they stopped over at the island of Paros, which was then inhabited by some of Minos' sons. While there they killed two of Hercules' companions, a deplorable act which sent Hercules on a rampage. He killed two of Minos' sons and threatened the other inhabitants until he was offered two men to replace his own fallen companions. Hercules agreed and took two of Minos' grandsons, Sthenelus and Alcaeus. From there they continued on their voyage and made landfall at the court of Lycus, whom Hercules defended in a battle against the king Mygdon of the Bebryces. After killing King Mygdon, Hercules gifted much of the conquered land to his friend Lycus. To which Lycus then called the land Heraclea. Hercules and his crew then set off for Themiscyra where Hippolyte lived and where the belt would be found. The belt was a regalia symbol of office, much like the ceremonial necklaces that Mason's, Elks and other such orders along with civil administrators of cities still adorn themselves with today for their important functions. The purpose of sending Hercules after it, as with his other labors, was to get himself killed. Hera's pardner in this crime was Eurystheus. Each labor wasn't the much vaunted test that it was claimed to have been. Each was carefully selected to put him directly in the eye of the storm where Hercules would seemingly innocent enough get himself killed. The lure to him was the promise of immortality if he could succeed at all of them that he might have become a demigod. And being fully mortal at the time was to be his undoing. Hera presumed that to send him to the Amazon HQ that it would have been impossible for him to succeed. Here he would be surrounded by such a number of Amazons that anything less than thievery would get him killed. And even then the chances for successfully stealing it would have been less than Ideal to have gotten away with that and a for certain death sentence. According to the story, Hercules and his crew (among which was Theseus, slayer of the Minotaur and future king of Athens) were respectful of their customs and very diplomatic in their dealings with the Amazons, and in kind were accepted as guests. Hippolyte and Hercules set the tone of the meeting with respect as one champion to another, as he told of his mission and what he wanted, to which she replied by graciously surrendering the belt to him as a token of respect. Needless to say Hera was furious that Hercules had managed to outwit her in an ancient version of TV's Survivor. She took up the costume as one of the Amazons and stirred up great suspicion among them by saying Hercules and his men were here to kidnap the Queen. It incited an uprising and a mounted attack upon Hercules and his companions and in the frey Hippolyte was accidentally killed. Hercules and his companions were severly outnumbered and took flight in their ship. Hercules had the belt he been charged to get. Thesues kidnapped Hippolyte's sister Antiope, who was rightfully the Queen when Hippolyte was killed. Stories diverge here about Antiope, some say it was a love story between her and Theseus, while others claim it was a kidnapping. Whatever it was, it sparked the Attic war when the Amazons massed to attack Athens to rescue her. Hercules and his men then set off for Troy where they found Troy's people suffering the consequence of their leader, Laomedon's, failure to pay promised wages to two laborers. These so called laborers were in reality gods in disguise, Poseidon and Apollo, so when Laomedon went back on his word they sent a sea monster and a pestilence . An oracle told the people the only way out of their leaders intransigence was to surrender Laomedon's daughter, Hermione, to the sea monster. So they did, fastening her on the rocks by the sea. Hercules volunteered his services to rectify the situation and agreed to rescue Hermione on the condition that Laomedon give him the mares which Zeus had given to him in compensation for Ganymede's abduction. They readily agreed and Hercules then killed the sea monster, rescued Hermione, and demanded his mares. The king, however, was still recalcitrant, so Hercules, unrewarded for his labors, threatened to wage war on Troy. ******* Whats so interesting about this story is its supposed to be myth. But as research has proven the mythical Troy wasn't so mythical at all, as it really did exist, so exactly how much of this story is true? Also here Hippolyte and the entomology that it could have preceded the notion of the modern HIPPIE culture might be an interesting twist involving Amazons which inhabited a portion of Scythia in the Boryspil kurgans of the historical past being true. It just hasn't been explored that much and proven beyond a shadow of doubt, yet its there and true not far from Kiev and the Ukraine. And then there is this... www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/19-greek-military-history-a-archaeology/251384-hippeis-not-hippies.html?limitstart=0Did someone forget to tell them that they were all talking the same language and hippo... had something to do with a horse and the man on its back being referred to as cavalry? This having absolutely nothing to do with weed smoking, peace proclaiming hip cultured slugs that wanted nothing to do with horses, cavalry or anything war. Don't think so.... But.... maybe entomology might be the beginning of understanding it ;D |
|
|
|
Post by joewiggs on Oct 28, 2012 16:27:45 GMT -5
Absolutely fantastic! What a great explanation of the possibility etymological begging for Hippie! I was a little late finding this but, glad I did. Great work of interest!
|
|
|
|
Post by stumblingbear on Oct 28, 2012 18:17:53 GMT -5
I agree! What a interesting well of wonderful information you often give us? I enjoyed it very much!
|
|
|
|
Post by whitebull on Jun 21, 2013 19:06:40 GMT -5
Hey I missed this! You da man!  |
|
