Welcome part 2

[tbw]

Welcome to 'any' newcomers. Don't be shy to express your thoughts and opinions here. You are most welcome to share what you know and not be chastised or criticized for it. In fact, we all might just learn something new or never thought of before.

[crazycanuck]

Why didn't Custer scout the northern end of the camp before sending Benteen southwest and Reno charging across the river ? Was he afraid the Indians would scatter and thus he would lose the element of surprise? It appears Custer didn't do his homework at West Point nor at the LBH . Never underestimate your opposition,leave no stone unturned was ignored apparently.

[stumblingbear]

Good question and welcome to the forum! I don't really know the answer but I guess that he didn't because he knew that the north was covered by Terry.

[joewiggs]

Nov 14, 2010 10:11:04 GMT -5 crazycanuck said:

Why didn't Custer scout the northern end of the camp before sending Benteen southwest and Reno charging across the river ? Was he afraid the Indians would scatter and thus he would lose the element of surprise? It appears Custer didn't do his homework at West Point nor at the LBH . Never underestimate your opposition,leave no stone unturned was ignored apparently.

You are absolutely correct, Custer did not do his homework prior to attacking. he fell victim to a false assumption shared by he and his men and, his superiors as well: the warriors would not stand against the Army.

As Stumbling bear suggested, he may have thought that all avenues of Indian escape were blocked off leaving the North open, toward Terry's command.

[crazycanuck]

But I don't think he would want Terry(one of the reasons Benteen sent south) to be credited a hero Indian Fighter and gain the so called glory(another notch on the gun on the way to Whitehouse ambitions) that would accrue when it was right in front of Custer to have for his own taking.I think he was foolish,unctious and thus didn't know that he doesn't know,IN OTHER WORDS A MISQUIDED, MISSPLACED, SUPERIORITY military thinktank mentality that existed with regards to the Indians.With hindsight I too would be singing"Please,Mr.Custer.I DON'T WANNA GO"! I'm pretty sure Custer wasn't the type who believed "I don't care who gets the credit as long as we get the job done".

[cinnamon]

nobody remember here that the dividing his troops wasn't the start of the attack? This is basically. When he splitted command, sent Benteen on a reconnaisance to the left. Only in a second time sent orders to Reno to start the attack. It was not for arrogance or fear that Terry came in. It was just because his task was to force indians on reservations and he had to get an immediate decision. There were no homework to be done and, less than less would West Point Tactics helped him as they were made to fight organized armies, not indians on abrupted and hilly lands. Remember that he called Benteen back. Probably Boston Custer told him that Reno was in trouble and so he had to make a move to gain time (MTC). unfortunately that move came while Reno was withdrawing, and Benteen never came. If he lost was just because the plan needed to have syncronized moves thatt never came. In few words, he had to take decisions and decisions while the situation unespectedly unfolded.
About the indians escaping, it is not thinktank mentality in Custer case: until then, the most of the times, indians attacked by strong and adequate forces always escaped. An indian you will remember, stated that when Reno leaved the timber, they thought he was attacking the village and suddenly they started to withdraw...until they saw soldiers were escaping, so the "buffalo hunt" started.

[crazycanuck]

Poor logistics by Custer (keep your friends close . . brothers ,Calouhn,Yates,Keogh,nephew,writer etc which he did and your enemies closer(Benteen,Reno which he didn't) + innumerable proud p#$$%# off vengeful Indians + AS YOU SAY (THE UNFOLDING OF THE UNEXPECTED OR THE LAW OF UNINTENTIONAL CONSEQUENCES=Custer loses .Math don't lie.

[cinnamon]

I respect your opinion but don't share it. My own opinion is already said above. And it don't contemplate poor logistic. That has nothing to do. Companies had their chiefs. And, Benteen and reno were supposed to be enemies of the indians, or am I wrong? They were professional soldiers and were expected to obey their orders. No matter if they hated their commander. I had no sympathy at all for my Captain, but I did obeyed all what he ordered.
If the things were to go as Custer had planned, it would have been a great victory over the indians.

[crazycanuck]

Fair enough Cinnamon but as Napoleon said there is a "colonels baton in every corprals knapsack" and I would question the loyalty of Benteen and Reno, but hey just my opinion.As far as the soldiers being pros in those days I DON'T THINK SO, SOME COULD BARELY RIDE AND SHOOT. From what I can decipher Reno and Benteen drank on the job.

[Cutter]

crazycanuck, seems to me you have a bone to pick with Custer. Pick on bud, please elaborate.

[crazycanuck]

Colonel Sir, Custer was a self promoting fop, reckless with his command, causing needless deaths at LBH .Personally I think he was more concerned about gathering information for another book instead of looking after his troops.War sells books not peacetalks(boring).

[cinnamon]

This is a legend. The 7th was trained by Custer, and were well trained. (ex. the colour of horses companies, matches of speed etc. All is well explained on Frost book about Custer. Benteen was a brave soldier, with his failures and hated Custer, but always a brave soldier. Reno was less, but he was a Major, and Custer had to count on him. And, read the correspondence of Custer, you will see that he care a lot about his men and never avoided himself something he asked to his men to face.

[joewiggs]

Nov 16, 2010 7:42:18 GMT -5 crazycanuck said:

Colonel Sir, Custer was a self promoting fop, reckless with his command, causing needless deaths at LBH .Personally I think he was more concerned about gathering information for another book instead of looking after his troops.War sells books not peacetalks(boring).

Actually Custer achieved the rank of Lt. Colonel after the war. Your perspective that Custer was a "self promoting fop,etc" is extremely interesting. While I do not claim to be an expert on the Col.'s background, I can recall no source that agrees with your perspective in the slightest.

A casual review of Commanders who served during the 1800's will show, I believe, many who were very similar in disposition, ethics, and demeanor as Custer who was not an aberration..

[Cutter]

Where are my manners? Welcome captainskip. ;D

[stumblingbear]

Me too Captainsk :)ip! Welcome!