10 Greatest Myths about the LBH

[crazycanuck]

Your right about you holding your breath Whitebull, you might turn purple .We don't want anybody hurting themselves on this site. Can I call you the Ivory Taurus or maybe the Milky Taurus though I like Whitebull ? I can't believe you are siding with CNN,Gnat and Jigs. If we all think the same there is no thinking going on.

[cinnamon]

CC, I don't want you to think like me. And you're not fair telling this. My last statement answer you: I just think Custer wasn't as evil as you think. I think you are exaggerating in you critical view. And I show you where you are too much blinded by your hate. Maybe you're right, Custer wasn't a great indian fighter but at the time he was the best informed on indian views, and ways, as the indians said too: "Custer is a white who act like an indian". He didn't risked himself people life. People was there risking because they wanted to be there, it was their job, and Custer was there because he was sent there. He didn't go there alone with a personal bunch of soldiers. He did goes there because they sent him over there. And he even was headwashed by Sherman because he was too much "tender" with indians...The killing of women was suddenly stopped by Custer that wasn't aware his order ("don't touch women and children") was not obeyed. When He was told about it he ordered all the unarmed people of the village to be put in a tepee out of the battle.
What they did after Custer death is not Custer's fault.
I am not wanting you to like Custer. I don't care if you dissent I just think you are making your opinion on your antipaty. you have created a monster for your own pleasure, a kind of fetish to punch, responsible of all the evil of this world. And even when the thread doesn't have to do with Custer you come and BLAHHHHH, you vomit offences to Custer. This is obsessive. I just ask you to consider that maybe you are too much negative on this man. Nobody is totally mud. Even Hitler and Stalin had their positive corners as human beings (deeper and deeper and deeper). Come on CC, try to look Custer in a more unbiased way. Really I don't care if you don't like him. I am a gentleman and I respect all opinions.

[crazycanuck]

My mind is open CNN,and I respect your responses.

[cinnamon]

that's all what i ask from you.

[Cutter]

Good thread, again, well done cinnamon. ;D

[joewiggs]

Aug 25, 2011 12:41:20 GMT -5 crazycanuck said:

My mind is open CNN,and I respect your responses.

I'm proud of you general! ;D

[joewiggs]

One of the most misleading falsehoods testified to by Wallace and Reno referred to the amount of men that comprised his battalion. I believe they quoted 114 men. In actuality is was about 134 officers and men and scouts.

Let's subtract the scouts (16) and see what the final results are: result a platoon of men not accounted for.

To state the obvious, why did these two men fudge the truth? After all, invite 18 men into your living room and see how difficult it would be not to see them.

the smaller the battalion, the more reason to suggest that Reno never had a chance and that Custer sent him to attack the village with a meager assault force.

Another thing, Custer did not order him to attack a "village." he ordered him to bring to bay approximately 50 warriors who were observed running away.

[stumblingbear]

The more I hear and read about the lies told about this battle the more I am convinced that the truth may never be known.

[joewiggs]

Sadly, Stumblingbear the truth is that "lies" have become such a substantial part of the "last Stand." So much so that one may be ridiculed for daring to promote the truth.

Such as:

Custer had a plan of attack;

Reno cravenly fled from battle and completely demoralized his troops in the process;

Benteen was duped by the confidence instilled by the incorrect remarks of victory uttered by Martini and Kanipe and thus, disregarded his order to hurry;

and there were not thousands of warriors and tens of thousands of Indian ponies in the village just to name a few discrepancies.

The good news is that this forum promotes an arena of freedom that foments free thinking!
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[joewiggs]

Reno was responsible for ordering Weir to seek out General Custer and to report back to him if any vital information was discovered.

The truth:

Sgt. Martini: Saw Weir talking to Reno and captain Weir was excited and appeared angry. Weir kept pointing down river; soon after he rode off to the north.

Windolph: "It is known (Weir) had a heated argument with Reno."

John Fox: Overheard Weir talking to Reno and asking to go to Custer. He heard Reno reply, "No, for if you go try to do it, you will get killed and your company with you!"

[tbw]

Jun 16, 2012 20:46:46 GMT -5 joewiggs said:

Reno was responsible for ordering Weir to seek out General Custer and to report back to him if any vital information was discovered.

The truth:

Sgt. Martini: Saw Weir talking to Reno and captain Weir was excited and appeared angry. Weir kept pointing down river; soon after he rode off to the north.

Windolph: "It is known (Weir) had a heated argument with Reno."

John Fox: Overheard Weir talking to Reno and asking to go to Custer. He heard Reno reply, "No, for if you go try to do it, you will get killed and your company with you!"

I have a problem with this. I think basically here its a matter of timing and perspective. When you have that many saying things like this you have to question whether it was true or not. I have no doubt it was true, but I don't think it pertained to the time when Reno sent him downstream. The reason is the report Reno himself filed barely a week and a half later which stated this:

Headquarters 7th U S Cavalry.,
Camp on Yellowstone River,
July 5, 1876:

Still hearing nothing of Custer and with this reinforcement, I moved down the river in the direction of the village, keeping on the bluffs. We had heard firing in that direction and knew it could only be Custer, I moved to the summit of the highest bluff but seeing and hearing nothing sent Capt Weir with his company to open communication with him. He soon sent back word by Lieut. Hare that he could go no further and that the Indians were getting around him.

Now then if your looking for something to blame Reno for it would be maybe in lying to the court about not hearing that firing downstream, where here in his official report it was clearly stated as the opposite. The main problem I do have with Reno not sending any reinforced unit downstream in advance of his battalion when going towards Custer's field would be... is that it would have been something any commander would have done. That Reno said he did it then is not unusual for me in the least. What remains then is if Reno didn't order him forward in advance of the battalion, who did he order there? For if he didn't do that it would have been the worst foolish thing he had ever done on that entire battlefield, and should have been the thing we need to have been berating him for.

For me anyway its difficult to see it any other way than the way he stated it in his official report. And I think there is enough in there to hang the man for, in fact more than enough. And I really do think that something like this has been misinterpreted as to time and place and has been relocated by some of those participants to make Reno look worse than it was. My read on this is that this heated conversation took place between Reno and Weir at that furthest point downstream when Weir went back and left Edgerly in charge. It makes not just perfect sense, but the most sense.

[joewiggs]

That is exactly my thought, Reno's lying in the Court of Inquiry is not only amazing but, also, incomprehensible when one realizes that U.S. military officials allowed him to do so without comment. Even more explicitly, I am puzzled as to how the Board remained silent and allowed this travesty of justice to occur.

Reno's "Official Report" written shortly after the battle was the closes to the truth he would ever achieve. During the inquiry his denials of reality, incredible aspersions, and incessant insistence that he heard no firing from Custer's killing field is incomprehensible but not addressed.

Even more incredible to me is the non-response of the Board. My personal belief is that there existed a tactical agreement between the Board, Officer witnesses, and Mr. Gilbert. Why? It was incumbent upon the military to absolve Reno or face public censure against the army.

The post-civil war army was skeletal in manpower and its reputation was reduced to a public perception that only bums, thieves, and ne'er-do-wells comprised its membership. This, of course, excludes the "Officer Class" which consisted of "Officers and Gentlemen" who could do no social wrong.

Congress had reduced funding to the military and was prepared to further reduce funding just prior to the battle. If the truth got out ("cowardice" committed by the elite "officer Class") true hell would have surely have exploded!

Whittaker's tome initiated a public firestorm that had to be address and/or denied. That was the purpose of the inquiry. The Board realized that charges of military acts of "Malfeasance of Duty" occurring during the battle resulting in the loss of so many lives would be extremely detrimental to the reputation and economic well being of the army.

However, the Officers' understandable unwillingness to see their beloved Corps fall into public disgrace encouraged them to band together in a brother hood of silence and amnesia which kept the public hounds at bay.

[whitebull]

The one thing that gets my gall is the good old "conspiracy theories." Reno was no hero and what he did was pretty sad in not covering his retreat and not doing all he could to help the wounded left behind. it would be really hard to like him but, should he have the whole load of what happened dumped on his shoulders?

I think that the board listen to all of the facts, came to an agreement that Reno was not spectacular in leadership but not a coward either, If you put yourself in his place, responsible for all the lives of his men, then maybe you can give the man a break.

No disrespect to you Joe, i understand where you're coming from but try and give the man a break.

[stumblingbear]

Whitebull, I don't think Joe is asking you to believe in UFOs or the Yeti. In today's world, we know that organizations are committed to protecting their reputations at any cost. Its all about money isn't it.

What is true today was probably true in Custer's day. Members of an organization make terrible mistakes and their actions have to be addressed. makes sense to me!

[joewiggs]

Stumblingbear, unfortunately long existing "truths" whether factual or not are not easily given up by those who believe it so. Confusing believers with "facts" can sometimes bring about resentment.

No offense intended to you Whitebull, just saying.