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Post by Cutter on Jul 27, 2011 22:40:34 GMT -5
Has there been much written about Mollie Holland, either by GAC's pen or others?
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Post by stumblingbear on Nov 6, 2011 17:11:33 GMT -5
Custer was one of the best field commanders they had, as although the indians would eventually grow weary of the chase, it's the "eventually " part that the government didn't want. They wanted the question settled as soon as possible, so they got Custer into the hunt. I don't know how I miss this Cutter! You are so right. I don't believe that other field commanders were any better than him. You're not saying that he never made a mistake (hold your horses CC  ) everyone does, eventually, no matter what kind of job you have. Custer was not above mistakes and no one on this forum has ever said that he was. It seems such a shame that some people believe that he, alone, was responsible for what happened. Great job Mr. Cutter! |
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Post by joewiggs on Aug 4, 2013 18:31:33 GMT -5
"Their the bravest General of Modder [sic] times met his death with his two Brothers Brotherinlaw([sic] and nephew not 5 yards apart Surrounded by 42 Men of E Company. Oh what a slaughter....eavery [sic] one of them scalped and otherwise Mutilated but the General he lay with a smile on his face the indians eaven [sic] respected the great Chief."
I Buried Custer:The Diary of Pvt. Thomas W. Coleman
7th U.S. Cavalry
Undoubtedly, Custer's burial was superficial as the bodies of he and Tom had been dragged out of the grave, their bones had to be gathered up.
No Indian recognized Custer and would not have "honored" him if they did. Prematurely balding and, having received a hair cut there was not sufficient hair on his scalp to make a respectable trophy.
A arrow pushed up his penis and a ring cut away from his finger constitutes mutilation.
Custer's "two Brothers Brotherinlaw and Nephew were more than five yards distant;more like a hundred yards.
Why do you suspect the above salutation was written in contrast to the actual reality of the demise of Custer and his family?
I believe it was done to spare the feelings of Libby, to honor a perceived fallen "Hero", and to render a sense of spirituality to the whole affair implying that the brothers earned a first class ticket to heaven for their sacrifice.
This particular "farewell" is what people did in the historical era. the mores of society, at that time, viewed such remarks not as lying but one or respect.
Today such remarks would be viewed as outrageous lies to "hide" reality. We, the people, are so very different today then we were over a hundred years ago.
Perhaps not for the better..
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Post by whitebull on Aug 18, 2013 18:30:04 GMT -5
Man, when I read about Custer laying there with a smile on his face I always wondered what there was to smile at?  When you read something like this from a eyewitness, you kind of accept it as true. Why would someone lie about something like that I ask myself. I'm no expert but Custer had to have been dead when the arrow was inserted and the ring cut off his hand or the last thing he would have had on his face is a smile!!! Like my Momma use to say, "evcerything you hear got to be taken with a grain of salt!" Hell, we don't even know if Custer was properly buried or not! |
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Post by joewiggs on Aug 19, 2013 11:34:53 GMT -5
WB, those were different times with much different values. Today the news media glories in their often brutal, detailed, and gory renditions of violence and death across the Nation and the World.
The sensitivity of the nineteenth century no longer exist. In his day, rightly or wrongly, Custer was viewed as a celebrity with a living spouse who was also viewed as someone of import. As such, they were entitled to a special dispensation.
Today, if the president of the U. S. were to get involved in any unsavory situation he/she would be savagely ripped apart. Ask Clinton!
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Post by stumblingbear on Aug 20, 2013 10:48:17 GMT -5
Joe, you are so right. Pvt. Charles Windolph wrote a letter to one historian (I forget for the moment who  ) that tom Custer was never mutilated even though quite a few other witnesses said that tom was so disfigured that he could only be recognized by the "T.W.C." tattoo on his wrist! |
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Post by whitebull on Oct 19, 2013 19:01:07 GMT -5
That's exactly what drives me nuts sometimes! You read about incidents of this battle that you know can not be true yet, people swear to it. Poor tom was a mess as described by many witnesses and yet, Taylor swears that he was practically untouched. Go figure!
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Post by joewiggs on Oct 23, 2013 12:55:20 GMT -5
Taylor reacted the way he did due to the delicacy of the social nuances of that era. To be brutally dismembered by a "savage" was perceived (by some) as an unnecessary insult and disgrace to the fallen soldier's family.
Also, there was a real hesitancy to shock the widow of the fallen soldier particularly when the widow was Libbie, who was very popular, well known, and respected.
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Post by stumblingbear on Oct 25, 2013 13:11:35 GMT -5
Taylor reacted the way he did due to the delicacy of the social nuances of that era. To be brutally dismembered by a "savage" was perceived (by some) as an unnecessary insult and disgrace to the fallen soldier's family. Also, there was a real hesitancy to shock the widow of the fallen soldier particularly when the widow was Libbie, who was very popular, well known, and respected. Knowing the truth about Custer's injuries, I bet Libby really appreciated the silence. |
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Post by joewiggs on Oct 28, 2013 12:50:32 GMT -5
Things were truly different in those days. There was a respect and sensitivity then that no longer exist now!
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Post by stumblingbear on Oct 31, 2013 13:03:38 GMT -5
Now adays even the elderly and the infirmed are targeted!  |
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Post by joewiggs on Nov 1, 2013 18:28:27 GMT -5
The times;they are a changing!  |
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Post by stumblingbear on Dec 28, 2013 17:06:43 GMT -5
Here a side of General Custer I never knew of until very recently:
"If I were an Indian (Custer wrote) I often think I would greatly prefer to cast my lot among those of my people adhered to the free open plains rather than submit to the confined limits of a reservation, there to be the recipient of the blessed benefits of civilization, with its vices thrown in without stint or measure."
What do you think about that?
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Post by whitebull on Dec 28, 2013 19:51:19 GMT -5
I think that this was a side of Custer that not to many folks knew about.
Maybe he didn't have to much against the Indians but, whipping them at the Little Big Horn was his last chance to get promoted? The reason I say that is he seemed real eager to get at folks he liked? Who knows?
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) everyone does, eventually, no matter what kind of job you have.
When you read something like this from a eyewitness, you kind of accept it as true. Why would someone lie about something like that I ask myself. I'm no expert but Custer had to have been dead when the arrow was inserted and the ring cut off his hand or the last thing he would have had on his face is a smile!!!
) that tom Custer was never mutilated even though quite a few other witnesses said that tom was so disfigured that he could only be recognized by the "T.W.C." tattoo on his wrist!
