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Post by stumblingbear on Apr 3, 2011 14:48:25 GMT -5
I think that he was neither one. I think it's possible that he was mis-led by the positive actions and statements of Sgt. Kanipe and Martino. They led him to believe that Custer hand everything in hand and the battle was over just about over.
Later, when he realized the truth he began justifying his failure to report back to Custer as soon as possible. His personality was such that found it easier to blame others for their failing then imagine any of his own.
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 10, 2011 10:26:15 GMT -5
I voted "yes" he is a sinner. Despite Stumblingbear's understandable response, Benteen was negligent in his duties by failing to send a courier to Custer, failing to respond to the aid of Custer's command, and for not only lying at the inquiry but bragging about his prevarication in personal letters to his friends.
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Post by tbw on Apr 10, 2011 15:52:03 GMT -5
I had to go with both. Yeah I know tis a shock isn' it? But I think the salient thing to remember here is what was discussed on the Two Moons thread. I really don't think any of those men intentionally lied, I really don't. But, to qualify this, I'd have to also say that if one was to write a dissertation listing every one's accusations against these men (All the men of the 7th Cavalry), that one would find the volume more impressive in size and scope than what was said good about them.
Also, way to many hold this man in reverence as if he's some kind of hero like god. I most certainly do not, and the reasons for this are my own findings. Both Reno and Benteen canted and slanted things to make the battle what many view it as today, and the RCOI certainly helped them in that regard. What is most bothersome is the fact that if one believes their version of events,
and, AND misunderstands what they are really saying, one most certainly is misdirected to believe the wrong things. Was what they said a lie? Not exactly, but, BUT it wasn't the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
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Post by whitebull on Apr 10, 2011 17:49:10 GMT -5
I think the boy was psychotic! Once you read the "Goldin Letters" you get an idea of how disturb this Dude was. He liked no one, talked badly about everyone, and even the death of Custer was not enough to throw the man a bone.
When Custer took the "lead-out" away from Benteen he became enraged and from that point on did everything he could think of to be a contrariwise without actually disobeying orders.
His hate for Custer was so strong that he disregarded his common sense about the "signs" of Custer's command being in trouble and left them to their fate. It sure enough was not cowardice that moved the man. He had as much courage as Custer. Once he felt he had been insulted, no amount of pleading, circumstances, or moral good could make him change his mind.
Yup, the boy was psychotic. How come that category wasn't up on the board?
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Post by Cutter on Apr 10, 2011 23:59:21 GMT -5
Well, all being said about Benteen, the question that reoccurs, at least by implication, did he let his personal feelings impair his professional duties as a soldier?
Be advised, this is from a guy who thinks GAC was mortally wounded at the ford in the river ;D
Anyway, did Benteen harbor a deep seated hatred for Gac and the clan because of Maj. Elliot and other things, enough to sabotage a mission?
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Post by tbw on Apr 11, 2011 6:58:18 GMT -5
Cutter,
I haven't done all the research on this one yet, but, the friction between Custer and Benteen went back further than the Washita. The Washita seemed to be the fulfillment of a dream for Benteen and from that moment on he was ever more critical of Custer. Joel Elliot and Custer were very much in the same camp, cut of the same mold, moreover very close friends. And Benteen thought Custer didn't do enough, and even that can't be proven with a certainty. As I said this thing went back further than the Washita. Not long after Benteen became a member of the 7th, he wrote some kind of damning piece for a Louisiana newspaper. Custer became furious and told his men that if he found out which of his men did that - that he beat them. Benteen didn't hesitate and stepped forward saying it was him, thus putting Custer on the horns of a dilemna, either he'd beat Benteen thus a conduct issue since Benteen was an officer or he, Custer would back down. Custer backed down from his offer to beat the man in question. [Note: Evidently it was customary to treat the enlisted men with such contemptible measures as beatings, hanging by the thumbs and other such things which today they would be court martialed for.]
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Post by Cutter on Apr 11, 2011 13:10:38 GMT -5
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Post by tbw on Apr 11, 2011 16:17:49 GMT -5
Very good article Cutter, thanks.
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Post by Cutter on Apr 12, 2011 23:29:50 GMT -5
Thanks. Kellogg was AP too.
Seems to me that even though Benteen was, how shall I say, brusque individual, he was a fine officer. Not withstanding what or why he did what he did on the 25th, the coolness and enmity shown afterwards would be, in part, dealing with the stress of the mission. I'm not saying all, but I figure a piece of it was...
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Post by stumblingbear on Apr 14, 2011 7:12:09 GMT -5
I absolutely agree!  |
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 15, 2011 16:16:50 GMT -5
Cutter, I don't believe that Benteen consciously disobeyed Custer. A super "contrarian" by nature, resentful of those who achieved more but deserved less, Benteen was very prone to "dragging" just a tad to let others know that he was not happy.
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Post by Cutter on Apr 16, 2011 0:02:43 GMT -5
Don't think so either, wouldn't make sense .
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 16, 2011 17:34:57 GMT -5
I also believe that ,after the fact, Benteen went to various extremes to justify some of his discretions. For example:
"In a surprising admission, Benteen noted in one of his later narratives that Reno 'had seen nothing of Custer and knew nothing of his whereabouts but, he heard some firing down the river, and supposed he was in that direction.'
Reno, in his official report on the battle, stated that firing was heard downriver and that the command 'knew it could only be Custer.' Within ten minutes and for at least an hour after that, virtually every every person on Reno Hill would hear volleys coming from the direction of the Custer battlefield, and even though at the court of inquiry both Reno and Benteen would denyever hearing those volleys, they were clearly deaf by choice and not by disability.'
To Hell with Honor/Sklenar
This particular author is in concert with others in coming to this conclusion. An unbiased interpretation of the written testimonies would lead the average person to a similar conclusion.
Yet, there is a particularly obnoxious individual on the other board who avows that no one heard these sounds except idiots and malcontents.
What may have occurred at the battle can only be guessed at based on testimony, artifacts, and an open minded approach. A factor that is exemplified over and over again by the fine members of this forum.
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Post by whitebull on Apr 16, 2011 20:35:15 GMT -5
It seems to me that Benteen's attempts to "cover" his trail at the inquiry did a whole lot to damage his image and damage his record as a soldier.
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 22, 2011 9:45:51 GMT -5
When Ben teen first received Custer's orders to "Come on," he decided that he didn't have time to wait for the pack train. he couldn't be of service to Custer if he went back to the train.
Once he arrived at Reno's Hill, even though there was, obviously fighting to the north, he decided to now wait for the packs.
What do you think was the critical point that made Reno shift his decision from not waiting to waiting?
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