Members Introductions

[shan]

Thanks everybody for that welcome, to be honest with you I feel somewhat embarrassed at having given yous my website with my artwork on it, feels a bit like a salesman touting his wares, or else looking for approval.

Anyhow, it's done now, so thanks for the praise, and to reply to Cutter's question, yes I do a lot of drawing, not so much pen and ink these days as pencil, but they are never really worked up pieces, more often they are studies for potential paintings.

Blue Dog

[joewiggs]

It is fortunate for the forum to have a talented artist share his wares with us. Thank you for the opportunity to see your pieces!

[melani]

Welcome, shan! Haven't seen you around for a while.

[shan]

Thanks melani,

no; I've been watching the sad demise of what I tend to think of these days as the darkcloud board, without posting there for maybe a year or so. But I have occasionally posted something on the other board on aspects of the battle that seem to generally get ignored, but over there they seem to have become so bogged down over the question of Benteen's dawdling, nobody appears to want to get engaged or reply, hence my recent appearance on this board.

Blue Dog

[melani]

Last time I checked, that thread was up to 113 pages. I think they are just going for a record. I've pretty much given up on that one. I think the issues are much broader, and at the same time much simpler. I'd be a lot more interested in exactly what they saw from Weir Point.

[shan]

I don't mind a discussion that trys to get to the bottom of a problem, but that one became anal if you'll forgive a pun. That aside my main gripe was that nobody seemed to want to just have a guess or discuss what may have happened to Custer after he left the bluffs. Maybe this was---or is, a hangover from darkcloud attacking anybody that dared to go beyond anything that was written down within a year of the battle, but sometimes a small observation opens up the mind to possibilities one hadn't considered before, I would put the observation that the wording Big Village on Cooke's note meant just that big village, and as such told Benteen what to expect.

As to a discussion as to what was seen from Weir point, I'm with you there. I don't know why, but I feel there is something hidden away in a trunk in some attic that will one day a little more light on this subject, until then it's mostly down to guesswork.

Blue Dog

[joewiggs]

Shan, as a long term recipient of inexplicable negativity and being called an idiot by the infamous Dim Cloud I fully understand your thoughts. Sadly, the inability or refusal of the administrators to curtail his antics have resulted in forums suffering and becoming diminished. This plague will never infest this forum.

As for your posting your web-site displaying your art, I thank you for doing so! I have already started saving to purchase your "Left Behind" piece of art. I feel fortunate that you have given us the opportunity to come in contact with your wonderful pieces. Thank you friend.

[melani]

Apr 24, 2010 14:00:59 GMT -5 shan said:

As to a discussion as to what was seen from Weir point, I'm with you there. I don't know why, but I feel there is something hidden away in a trunk in some attic that will one day a little more light on this subject, until then it's mostly down to guesswork.

Blue Dog

I think it may have been stashed away in Weir's brain--or what was left of it. I seem to recall someone saying that Whittaker said Weir wrote something down, but there was never any sign of it and it's probably not true. The fact that he died so soon after the battle says a lot more about his life in general for years previous than it does about the trauma of that particular experience.

I suspect that what they saw was the end of Calhoun, while Custer was still holding out on the hill, but that even Captain Picklebrain could see that they would be riding into a bigger world of trouble than they could handle. That plus the uncertainty resulting from the "charge to the rear" and Reno's general lack of togetherness, and the fact that Weir had moved out without orders--or even against orders--could easily have kept them paralyzed while watching Custer's battalion get decimated. But they sure wouldn't have wanted to talk about that afterwards. All in all, not the U.S. Cavalry's finest moment.

[melani]

I have just had a sudden vision of that paralyzing uncertainty being explored in a novel or painting. Think about it, you creative types.

[stumblingbear]

Can you just imagine Weir's guilty conscious if he did witness the end but, did nothing to help? To have to live with that would be unbearable.

[Cutter]

"Can you just imagine Weir's guilty conscious if he did witness the end but, did nothing to help? To have to live with that would be unbearable."
I think could do nothing to help his friends made him climb further in a bottle. Lot's of emotions, half truths after the fight, covering one's tracks, on both sides of the fight. The battle has all possible politics in all areas. I guess that's why we're here, always discovering new things so long after the fight.

[melani]

So--suppose Reno recovered his composure, assigned a company to look after the wounded, and advanced rapidly with the rest of the outfit? Would they have arrived in time to do Custer any good? Would there have simply been more companies wiped out? Would the wounded have been overrun and killed? Anybody want to play with that?

[Cutter]

Well, Reno wouldn't have the men, even with Benteen's companies added I would think. The battle tactics of the day may have worked if the opposing strength was known in advance, and planned for, like if the attack was on the 26th, after being adjusted to suit the apposing force. The battle plans were made on the fly, thus "Big Village" really means something special. I alway's wondered what would have happened if Benteen led the charge into the village, and Reno did the scout mission?

[melani]

Benteen might also have stopped and formed a skirmish line, but I would be willing to bet that if he retreated to the timber, he might have held out longer and with better organization--and maybe better fire control?--so that Reno might have had time to come up in support. So then you would have had seven companies threatening the south end of the village, and maybe Custer could have come in on the north end, which seems to be what he had planned. The attention of the Indians would certainly have been more divided. It might not have been a stunning victory, but if all three battalions could have joined up, it probably wouldn't have been the slaughter it was.

What do you think Custer's chances of successfully charging through the village to join Reno and Benteen in that scenario would have been?

[Cutter]

"I have just had a sudden vision of that paralyzing uncertainty being explored in a novel or painting. Think about it, you creative types."
Well, I would think there would be too many to count that were documented, but more that weren't.
In reality, I think of Pvt Vincent Charley, hiding, with the hope of being rescued. Isaiah Dorman, and his demise.
I think, though, the story of Charley Reynolds, would be the most interesting, and deserved from the Reno fight.