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Post by Cutter on Apr 28, 2010 1:29:17 GMT -5
I don't think they had a shot at it, given the opposing strength, the high morale after Crook and the sundance, Their weponry, the whole shmere. Custer got whipped.
I also have thought Benteen may have taken his time, but to me, Crook is equaly to blame, if there is any, for Custer's dimise.
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Post by melani on Apr 28, 2010 19:32:53 GMT -5
Yes, it would have been nice if Crook had let them know that he'd been whupped and was headed for home.
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Post by Cutter on Apr 28, 2010 21:09:59 GMT -5
Well, I don't know about field communications, wether that was all that possible. However, with his light casualties, his decision to stay at Big goose creek made it possible for Custer to be in the perfect storm. But with all the poundage of ammunition his troops spent, well prehaps it was prudent. It's just taking one prong out of a three prong mission seems to me to be asking for it.
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Post by melani on Apr 28, 2010 23:08:45 GMT -5
It seems to me that it would have been possible for Crook to communicate. I believe Herendeen was along with Custer in order to send him with messages. If not a white scout, maybe one of the Indians?
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Post by Cutter on Apr 29, 2010 9:47:29 GMT -5
I forgot about Herendeen , he was there for comm with Terry. I don't remember Crook sending a message north to Custer or Terry. Ofcourse, saying something like "I'm bugging out, gonna do some fishing, see ya." wouldn't go over so well.
I'm going to study up on the Rosebud, Crook was an agressive officer, and so I've always wondered about that.
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Post by strange on Apr 29, 2010 13:32:04 GMT -5
Stranger's here! Meet the Stranger!
I finally made it! Thank you to Stormcloud for inviting me. I'll make sure to post some special drawings just for each and all of you to get this place rolling. I don't know when or where I'll be around here but.... I couldn't resist yanked in, and I'll be sure to give you all a special dose of strangiosity if I can summon it.
Sincerest regards from the magnificent One.
PS
Registration was a real nail biter.
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Post by Cutter on Apr 29, 2010 20:58:20 GMT -5
Hey Strange, glad to see your here.
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Post by melani on Apr 30, 2010 1:41:34 GMT -5
Welcome, strange!
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 30, 2010 7:21:54 GMT -5
Welcome Strange, glad you are here.  |
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Post by tbw on Apr 30, 2010 9:09:25 GMT -5
Indeed, Welcome Jack, it's very good to have you aboard. Sometimes people are more than inspired by your words, thoughts and colorful expressions in word and deed. Sometimes when stormclouds roll in they somehow enlighten a rather dull and boring monotony that resides within a place that needs a lightening bolt to cheer it up. Post away...
Dennis aka the stormcloud of the lbh anonomous club.
ps Sent you a private message...
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Post by strange on Apr 30, 2010 16:10:08 GMT -5
Well, Reno wouldn't have the men, even with Benteen's companies added I would think. The battle tactics of the day may have worked if the opposing strength was known in advance, and planned for, like if the attack was on the 26th, after being adjusted to suit the apposing force. The battle plans were made on the fly, thus "Big Village" really means something special. I alway's wondered what would have happened if Benteen led the charge into the village, and Reno did the scout mission? Benteen would've been more "all together" than Major Marcus Reno. He may have ended up along similar habits but he would have, at the very least, done everything to a more professionally satisfactory extent. The more terrible possibilities come from the "what ifs" of what would happen if Reno was in Benteen's shoes. Benteen actually had a very good position that came in real handy as a life saver for Reno and what could have been a potential reinforcement for Custer. It all would have added up to a victory if Reno had not collapsed the operation. I can't imagine what it would be like if Reno was in charge of the supplies and the packs, it might only work out to worse possibilities than what actually happened. The only positive about Reno taking Benteen's shoes is that Reno would not be under any of the claustrophobic battle fire that really pushed him to his limit in the heat of conflict. If Reno can do his job to get there with supplies and provide the blessing of extra manpower and support, then it wouldn't matter what he does after. So those are the positives and negatives about switching Reno and Benteen. I was personally quite surprised to find out that Reno was the second highest ranking officer at Little Bighorn. Sometimes I think Custer was correcting mistakes that didn't necessarily need to be corrected. At Little Bighorn he hashed out some quick plans that were meant to clear up a few of the supposed errors that were made at Washita. The peculiar part of this type of thinking was that Washita was actually considered a very successful battle for Custer. And many of the "errors" at Washita may have actually saved his life and contributed to that victory. We can really draw a line between the Pattons and the Bradleys when we tackle the topic of how Reno and Benteen in particular would have performed better if they had had more information about their enemy. They didn't understand how to improvise like George Armstrong Custer was always able to do and they sealed his fate by not following that lead. |
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Post by Cutter on Apr 30, 2010 17:22:57 GMT -5
Something that I don't see too often is that LBH was the first indian fight Reno was in, if I'm not mistaken. Seems to me that would be one heck of a baptism under fire, and one heck of a big assignment to give someone who's never done it before.
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Post by joewiggs on Apr 30, 2010 20:07:39 GMT -5
Cutter, your thoughts are absolutely on the mark and, on the surface, it doesn't make sense to send men like Reno under such an experience. Unfortunately, the ethnocentric mindset of the nineteenth century of racial superiority induced the military leaders of our Country to do just that!
It is remarkable that some are astounded by Custer's alleged lack of a "Plan" when he was in fact carrying out the "Plan" of his superiors. That is, attack the Indians from different quarters and, as they fled in terror, corral them and herd them to where you wanted them to go. Stupid? Absolutely! However, this is exactly what Sherman advocated and Terry and Custer attempted to follow through.
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Post by Cutter on May 1, 2010 19:03:55 GMT -5
The US Cavalry weren't the only force to have bad or inappropriate tactics. The Wagon Box Fight showed that the Sioux would have they're moments too.
The Sioux based they're battle tactics on the long reloading time of muzzle-loaders. They went up against a much smaller force that were using breech-loading weapons.
Custer used tactics that were known sound, and would adjust and improvise on the fly like Strange said.
The Indian's turn and fight was Custer's equivalent to the Sioux's running up against breech-loading weapons when expecting muzzle-loaders.
So I guess, it's the simplest things, the most basic stuff, that can turn a fight one way or another.
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Post by joewiggs on May 1, 2010 19:17:11 GMT -5
So--suppose Reno recovered his composure, assigned a company to look after the wounded, and advanced rapidly with the rest of the outfit? Would they have arrived in time to do Custer any good? Would there have simply been more companies wiped out? Would the wounded have been overrun and killed? Anybody want to play with that? Excellent point Melani, the idea of more deaths while coming to the aid of Custer is difficult to digest. However, I can not help but wonder what could have happened if Reno had displayed some mettle, just a tad more than he did. Of Course we will never know because he didn't try. An example would be the actions of Godfrey who forced his men to hold the line when the command came a ripping and a tearing in their frantic haste to escape the same warriors who slaughtered Custer. Godfrey refused to let the line "bunch" forced his men, by mere will power, to stay align is "Skirmish." As a result, a single company drove back the same embolden, furious, "white" hating warriors by controlled carbine fire. This single company kept up a continuous fire while they withdrew in accordance with military tactics and safely returned to Reno Hill without the lost of a single soldier. Can you imagine if Reno's withdrawal from the timber had been as orderly as Godfrey's (utilizing "cover" fire) how many of his troopers may have been spared? It is true that combat is unpredictable, precarious, and pure hell. Whether a victory or a catastrophe is achieved in combat is incumbent on many circumstances, one of which is "guts"; the courage to try. |
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